Forum Announcements Site Changes (Death of Stars)..

It seems that one of the fundamental purposes of this site is the submission of work for review by the community to facilitate growth and improvement. -I say, "it seems" because I wasn't present at the 'let's make a website for aspiring authors and here's why:' summit. - Simple s**t and a f*****g good idea. For a number of reasons the review part of this site's process is coming up rather anemic, and so the growth and improvement of its members suffers. The star system is one of these reasons and if getting rid of it changes that, then wonderful. Granted the star thing helped further express the reviewers opinion of the piece and inform the to be reader of those opinions, but it obstructed one of the fundamental reasons for the site to exist. Now, the star system was only part of the problem. Most of the fault falls squarely on the reviewers -myself included- who did a piss poor job of reviewing most of the time. As a community we need to cultivate an atmosphere of helpful and honest critique if this site is to fulfill this part of its purpose and make good writers out of us.

I applaud those involved in making the change and I thank you in advance for sending all forthcoming hate mail their way.

as for the hate mail...

it's
V ( Vince Cancasci )
C/O Writers cafe... profile number 1743
www.writerscafe.org
Palmdale CA, 93551

please include scented panties

Oh, BTW: Did I say thanks for this site?! I've searched and searched and nothing even compares anywhere else on the 'net. The layout is great (except for those freakin' ads between my story title and the body of text!) and I think it is a wonderful venue.

To clarify, I'm not griping to be a nay-sayer and I agree that many of the reviews we get here are bullshit. I'm a debater; it's in my blood and I can no more keep my opinion to myself than I can not breathe, even when no one gives a crap what my opinion is, which is probably the case right now. ::biggrin::

At any rate, there [i]are[/i] Story Stats that tell how many views the page has received. If I have eighteen views and two reviews, that says a lot.

And it IS Charlie & Patrick's site; the ultimate decision is theirs. I'm all for seeing it how the chips fall but still think the manner in which this was decided was elitist bullshit. And d****t, Jerry, don't quit!!!!!!!!!

The site is great .... Thanks Guys ..... I didn't want to sound like an ingrate.

Thing is, a lot of you have a lot more confidence in yourselves and your writing than I have in mine. The stars served to purposes for me. They were an "attaboy" that stirred my confidence and I alway got just enough two and three star reviews to drag the average down enough to get my attention and have me reexamine the stories that were worse than my others. I wish I were as good and as confident as you guys, but I'm not. There I said it. Yes the damned stars were ego strokes, but sometimes that helped too [head hung in shame]

But whoever is pissed at me .... I'm sorry
If I offended you .... I'm sorry
I just felt very freakin unheard!

youre heard bro...youre heard... and as a token of...well whatever...lol...i will do some reading on you...and stars or no stars...i will help a brother out.

V

[quote=Mona Bethke]Rosamund, do you know how many people use this site? I'm just curious because you commented that a large number of people are upset by this. Personally, I only see repetetive negative reviews from a handful. So in that reality, I'm done with this and am going to do what it is I came here to do...write and hope my work affects someone in a positive way. Peace![/quote]

No, obviously I have no idea exactly how many people use this site, and I think that statement is a bit of a personal attack. Up until my post that you reference I counted 5 people who want the stars and one person who said that she would have several friends who would possibly leave the site because of the change. I also note that there were VERY rude comments made about the potential loss of writers - not at all a mature attitude.

I made every attempt to state my opinion in a polite, non-confrontational manner. I don not consider 5 people a repetitive handful any more so than those who are being every bit as repetitive, if not more so, on the other side of the fence. Also, since my post there have been others who have rationally stated their desire to see the stars returned.

It benefits no one to stoop to personal attacks against people who do not share your opinions.

I just assume everyone is giving me five stars anyway. So in essence, yes, the star system is useless. For me that is. For all of you, I don't know.

How about giving each user a limited number of 5 or 4 star ratings, so you would have to be real careful about giving away 5 stars because of the limited number you have? Let the 5 star votes be a way for the owners of this site to make decisions on who should be in the Anthology. And this could be really computer complicated so don't laugh at me if the code to get this kind of thing done is on par with... well some kind of really famous confusing code that escapes me right now.

The real issue here is how Alex feels when he gets 5 stars and he knows he really derseves ten or, on some off days, ten.

Anyway going to go drink in Baltimore. If your in town come to Club Charles. Maggie said she's gonna wear something s****y.

Take a deep breath Rosamund. The question I asked was a sincere one. I really don't know how many people use this site, I would guess in the hundreds. All I tried to state was that those of us who responded most likely are not a realistic number of a large amount of people. And yes, people from both sides have been rather voiced about this situation. As far as RUDE remarks, that is an opinion best posted to respond to someone who has been rude. I have not attacked anyone or made any crass comments to anyone, so I don't think it is appropriate to state that comment in response to what I wrote. This is really not an issue that should cause dissension among fellow writers. I respect you as a writer and I respect that you have an opinion. Some people are more passionate in how they voice that and that's fine, that's what opinions are for. I'm sorry this has caused you to feel bad, but it'll be okay one way or the other. Change can be difficult, we all have a hard time with it and unfortunately it's not always good for everyone. Let's ride it out and see how it goes. Keep writing and posting and revel in the good vibes that come your way.

From a fellow writer,
M

But I liked the stars! wtf??

I just want a good, honest, [i]hard [/i]critique of my work. I don't care about the stars. They distracted me, anyway.

Hello you both!

I'd like to have the "star system" back. It allowed a quick sight, the first informative impression. Thank you for the wonderful moments here and the possibility to stay in your community.

Lara

I think that it would do all participants of the writers cafe a s**t load of good to start developing in-depth review skills.
Take the time to really enjoy and learn from the amazing group of writers you find yourself traveling with.
Give real, honest, review/ interpretation of the words they have composed for your eyes and mind.
Read less perhaps, give more.

I miss the yellow too
but in all honesty the one aspect that helped me most at this site was the access to others words
and the lessons I learned from reading sooo many pieces.
I found my faults and strengths in the process of looking for them in others.
Cus sometimes I cant see my own s**t since Im standing on top of it. If you get what I mean.

So it will take a minute to get used to, no doubt
and wtf knows, perhaps we will need another kind of rating system
but lets face it,
the stars were perpetuating a flawed system of review where a lot of people simply copped out { what? Ive done it} and were basing their "say" on the solidity of those whole row of stars.
And the reviews themselves were no longer meaty and satisfying as far as promoting thought and growth {for the author}.
Stars sometimes equaled popularity and were given socially as much as deserved. Thats just what happened. It was working somewhat but mostly it was a downward cycle as far as real growth was concerned.

I think this is the beginning of something good. And if I read your work and I love it, trust me Im pretty good with words, youll know.::smile::

Support Charlie and Patrick, maybe help brainstorm a new way.

Maybe I'm beating a dead horse, but I just wanted to say that while it seems a small minority got their way, it's probably much more. Just as the proponents of the star-system are coming out of the woodwork, I think those who are against it will emerge as well, showing that this is more than just an "elitist" society.

It's a goddamn community, one that I'm proud and humbled to be a part of, and one that I would give a lot up for to continue to be in. To simply walk away from something this good because there isn't a friggen star system is pathetic. Call this a personal attack if you will, but I want to tell you all not to take something like this community for granted. I'm still young and still trying to get my stuff out there, and I haven't been around the net too much to look at other online writing communities, but just the fact that there even [i]was[/i] a convention (where EVERYONE was invited) shows a great deal about the way this website is run. It's not a place to throw your s**t up on the wall to be given nameless, faceless, emotionless reviews. We're slowly becoming a family, if we aren't already. So once again, I must reiterate...don't take this website for granted and leave over something as ridiculous as this.

I know some people are against change, and that's fine. But I have a feeling that if there weren't stars to begin with, NOBODY would be begging for them. And as other replies stated, if you really want to give and receive stars, nothing is stopping you from typing them out. And if you need to see how many stars a work has before you read it, then that writer probably doesn't need your opinion anyway.

(P.S. I worked hard on this reply, and would appreciate a star rating for it ::drool::)

Bravo erikb, very well put. No stars but lots of hugs and a promise to read your work!

M

* * * * *

five stars erik... five f****n stars...lmao


look how easy that was...for all of you new to typing...it's shist and the number 8 at the same time...do it with me fellas... ready * there we go...one more time *...sweet...we learn something new every day..

V

[quote=sinserepoetry]* * * * *

five stars erik... five f****n stars...lmao


look how easy that was...for all of you new to typing...it's shist and the number 8 at the same time...do it with me fellas... ready * there we go...one more time *...sweet...we learn something new every day..

V[/quote]


[Spreads mat so as to walk softly and not upset any apple carts]

Quick V ... what's his average rating?

I think they are collecting all those golden stars to melt down!

I don't care about the stars either way, but I hate the advertisements in between the title and the work.

Just to add to my rant (which I don't do often so enjoy it) I don't want any naysayers to think I missed their point. I understand it's not exactly the removal of stars that upsets you, but the underlying [i]principle[/i] of it all. Maybe I just overlooked it because I think I know Charlie and Patrick pretty well, and I know that they are as far from tyrannical and dictatorial as you can get. The star-rating is an issue that has been burning since its inception, and, being the webmasters of this site, they are serving in the best interests of the website that they [i]created[/i], one that we are all lucky enough to have found and taken part in.

I can understand that perhaps the stars served [i]some[/i] purpose, but in my opinion they created more problems than good, and I think many people can attest to this. But even if they did, somehow, help you figure out which pieces to read of your own or others', what is going on at this website shouldn't be compared to other tragic, much larger events in world history. That's preposterous. Stars being taken away is one thing; genocide of a group of people is another.

Get a grip, people. It's one little thing on a website, where more important issues matter. Charlie and Patrick will never take away anything that would inhibit creativity (ex. prohibiting certain styles of poetry, etc.). Even if you are reviewing a work, there is creativity involved. Stars are not creative. I may be a hypocrite because I've used the star system generously, but in essence (or principle) my argument is not really about stars either, but more for accepting change and improvement (even if it seems otherwise at the moment) rather than packing your s**t up and trying to find a better place to share your work, because, quite frankly, the odds are against it.

stars are a bit misleading, and i agree, the review itself out to be the focus

how's this suggestion:

along with the 'views' counter within the content, perhaps publicly display a 'review' counter as well but only outside the content, as in, by the link to it, to attract people to the work???

stars, for some reason, attract attention. suggesting that a certain piece is worth reading moreso than another. if a review shows instead, it may also interest people to know "what reviews has this person got" or "huh, no reviews. i wonder if anyone's read it yet"

<----------good ideas here, eh? ::smile::