Discussions along the way...

Originally Posted by PattyOfurniture

Hello Stranger.
Your posts (in this thread) are like picking up a copy of Tolstoys 'war and peace' and starting to read on like page 127....lol. I need to back up and see where you are coming from(in this thread).

Yay, I know, it's a very startling thing indeed, even if logically obvious from its division , to realise that divided religion is run predominantly by Satan and that the scripture shows this , prophesies it in the mouth of Jesus himself



... I guess that I was somewhat 'lucky' in that at only 16 I realised that the churches were stuffy, dead, going nowhere , but realised that the love within shows me God and requires to be manifest , that it is not for keeping. but for endless giving... that is my God then , not any creed invented by sinners to fill pews and their stomachs ... but it has taken over 40 years [in the wilderness?] to piece together what the scripture says, doing it this way is SLOW, not the way the saints receive His truth [John 16:13]

One ends up being grateful for the pain it causes to know even a little of God's truth , because all ofus have to go this way eventually, better to bear some of the pain now perhaps?

This is me,myself as of now.....

I like that a great deal , you avoided the BIG trap , leap of faith into what sinners teach, to come to realise that what we believe now is not what we shall believe tomorrow... it is the very opposite of creedal religion of sinners... a fixed belief made by sinners for sinners that leaves men sinners all their lives, Satan's system, but so very hard to get rid of everything in it without spirit baptism...

No "trinity",Jesus not pre-existent(except as the "plan").

John 1... yes it seems sound ...

No "once saved always saved",I don't believe we are "saved" before being judged anyway. To me "born-again" means being resurrected (to eternal life)

The plan of God, as I understand it so far from scripture , is to 'redeem' all creation to spirit in three more chunks, three widely separated phases , or 'ages' ... first the few so that the perfect priesthood are ready for the start of their massive work supporting the baptism of water, spirit, and 'fire' of the billions in the kingdom of God come to all men in the new earth... then , as the last stage, the most evil of men, those who deny God truth when given to all flesh [Joel 2:28, John 16:13] as Jesus states explicitly too in Revelation, showing its timing...

God has then the pleasure of His will and will perform it, but not all at once! :-

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, andI will do all my pleasure:

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD’S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

God's plan then is beautiful, complete ... the only difference between men is who suffers now the most, who suffers in the end the most [for at the end the most evil are just left to try to live their evil ways, and each simply preys on the others, everyone loses ... it doesn't take that long in the 'fire' from God to make them realise their mistake and abandon Satan , suing for God's mercy that endures right to the very end because He is love :-

Psalms 100:5 For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations

So one could say that in one sense everyone is 'saved' , since no-one will not be redeemed, but there are different lengths of suffering of different intensities for the three groups of people to go through before final rest in the spirit

Thus the FEW saints will be judged at Jesus return and all sinners rejected [no matter they 'call' themselves 'christians' and or 'good works' ], all Christians are saints , as Paul has said :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

As for being born again, it is not the translation to spirit from a living body perfected in love that you suppose , but simply spirit baptism.... when God gives all truth to the few saints in this life, the many in the new earth... John 16:13 ... the truth of God is thus the gift of faith also , thus one no longer is left piecing together the scripture , but knows all things and can thus resist Satan and turn to complete love, no more sin, become a saint ...

But remember FEW fin this strait narrow way in this life, and their lives are full of pain and usually leads to unjust death in his name , just as Jesus, the prophets and the other saints before them... it is a way for only one in 800,000 people , it is HARD and strait and required that one is perfect as Jesus and God :-

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So one cannot even get beyond water baptism without God deciding one is ready for this extreme ordeal of being a saint in this evil world... God simply will not baptise but the few He has given to Jesus under the new covenant with Israel, but there is no way of knowing who the few are except that they know all truth of God and have various other gifts from God ... the churches of sinners of course cannot deliver the spirit from God, so they fake it ... as if they could fool God ???

So all sinners who claim to be born again , may well be baptised in water and want an easy route to salvation, but God is not ready yet for them, bar His few He chose, and they are not ready to suffer the extreme trial, baptism of 'fire' , of the saints, comparably severe as Jesus; trial:-

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

No warm n fuzzy faith without works.

Faith in God is faith in love , love is not something one 'has'. it is something one gives away for free ... thus if one thinks one has faith in love and fails to love, one is simply mistaken [usually because of soothsayings by sinners that one listened to, oily words from Satan through his 'ministers of righteousness, men who think they are 'priests' without being saints !]

2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

No born with an immortal soul,no eternal torture in a hellfire...annililation only.

The soul is the 'life' apparent in a body animated by the spirit given by God ... life ends at death , the soul does not exist in death but is simply 'remembered' by God for resurrection to the body ... the term 'hell' [sheol, hades] refers to the unseen state of the soul in death , even Jesus' soul was 'in hell' , unseen in death .

The only immortal 'life' is life in the spirit, and it is nothing like this 'life' , nothing like this soul... one must be changed [1 Corinthians 15:52], translated, to life in the spirit, and as with Jesus, the body is no more when one is translated ... Jesus was not buried a second time !

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then [at death] shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The soul then begins and ends with life, but is always resurrected from death, from 'hell' TO THE BODY ... resurrection is not translation to spirit

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

No "dispensationalism".the Father has 1 plan and covenant for everyone.

There is only one plan, in scripture, and it is very clearly different than 'dispensationalism' , but there are TWO covenants, BOTH with Israel alone , and the reason is simply that god prophesied that Israel WILL be His holy nation of perfect priests fro his kingdom [Exodus 19:6] , thus His reputation depends upon it being true, He has said that he has the power to make it so through his truth and so will do His pleasure and save Israel first so that they can minster as priests and kings ,perfectly, in the salvation of the gentiles AFTERWARD [Rev 7:9-10]

He(the Father) was never surprised by us and had to slip a Saviour in as a sort of plan B...

LOL... yes, God does not change, He is timeless spirit.... only sinners invented that idea to try to suggest that Israel are not accepted back after their rejection for breaking the old covenant... the new covenant is clear though, it is with those whose fathers broke the old covenant [Heb 8:8-9]

Most men do not need grace then, because only one in a million is saved in THIS life, the many go by the BROAD way [Matt 7] through death and are freed from sin by death, they need no grace, wages of their sin are their death, paid in FULL! :-

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Sinners in churches try to steal grace from Israel, but who can fool God...??? ... rather read what the scripture says and stop believing in sinners, believe on the scripture until God baptises one in this life, or far more likely in the next... then one is truly a new man, with all truth GIVEN by god , able to resist sinning and live acceptably to him, and be redeemed AFTER TRIAL to perfect one's love, suffering ...
but it must be said that the suffering is less in the kingdom of God in the new earth, because MOST men live sinful lives now, whereas the many live righteous lives in the new earth... it makes love much easier when one is surrounded by loving people and has a perfect priesthood, not one made up of sinners ...

No special position for anyone according to their ethnicity,or lineage.no favoritism or discounted land deals..lol

Israel ain't special, they are rebellious and stiff-necked like the rest of us... God rejected them , both divided kingdoms of the nation, and scattered both worldwide... only the Jews hung together as a people because of Judaism, the House of Israel simply merged into the gentiles, never accepting Judaism... God simply gathers them back to Him out of the nations BECAUSE he will show the power his truth has to change the will of men , he will take Israel as His royal priesthood, will have them perfected in love through trial, just like Jesus... then He will use them to minister to billions redeemed in the new earth at or before judgement day ... this is not favouritism, it is simply that God will show His prophecies come true, and uses Israel as His demo of what everyone will go throguh later, just as Jesus went through it first ... we all follow Jesus eventually down this same way, the ONLY way ... Jesus has said all men WILL follow him eventually... just not in this earth :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

All then accept Jesus in the end , it's just a matter of time , and when one accepts the suffering of trial... [something the sinner churches largely gloss over... baptism of 'fire']

we either believe in and try to follow Gods demands,or we thumb our nose at Him. We either go to sleep and wake up to life,or wake up to an explanation then hopefully a humane end.
Boring I know,just making conversing with me a bit easier I hope...
GBU

Not quite , my insightful friend ... we are GIVEN new belief [born again] by God when he is ready to deal with our beliefs under Satan , thus look at where the faith of the saints comes from, not from men, but from God in spirit baptism :-

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is thegift of God:

Thus what most people call 'The faith' is simply faith in what sinners say , thus as we see ,it is DIVIDED and thus obviously from Satan, not the spirit ... God truth is one, and all those baptised of the spirit come to agree as ONE long enough before death to become saints by trial of this ONE faith in love... to love with no sin during life for long enough to impress God that one is ready for translation ... if not then it is back to life as a sinner for a lot longer...

Life is about when one suffers then ... many will put off the suffering until the 'lake of fire from God' , not giving up evil until it is seen to fail them... God is quite prepared for that, he is the perfect shepherd of His creation...

Men mostly do not realise that ALL men are being used for God's purpose, not their own vain purposes in life... it is painful, but revealing to see God's point of view in scripture that men going opposite directions all serve Him alone

Romans 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.