What's Wrong With Writerscafe? : Forum : The Problem


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The Problem

11 Years Ago


Please No CSS

WC used to be a grassroots community online for serious and amateur writers to mingle, share their work, and get feedback. Now it has degenerated into a bunch of self-promoting internet trolls desperately seeking attention though the easiest form of writing-- poetry.

Here's what's wrong with WC.

 

1. Too many self-proclaimed "Poets"

Poetry is too easy for amateurs to write, heck throw a few lines together and call it poetry. There are very few people out there who actually make money writing poetry, its a very refined artform that is more than just a few lines thrown together in random order---unfortunately most people on WC don't know that and try to "express their emotions" through poetry, which comes off as shabby emo prose. Many of these "poets" are young teenage poets who think they're poetry gods. When the actual respected poets on this site try to put them in their place, they go ape s**t.

 

2. Too many attention w****s

Writing something is easy, writing something good takes skill, and most people don't have it seeing how competitive the publishing industry is. However, lots of people hand out random good reviews with the expectation of getting a good review back and block anyone who gives them a bad review. Some people just can't write like some people just can't sing.

 

3. Too many teenagers

Look, teenage writers, it's a given, no one in high school is EVER good at writing, I sucked when I was in high school, its nothing to be ashamed about its just a developmental and maturity thing. Some seniors in high school might be very good, but that's only because they're gifted, there's a few of them here, but for the most part teenagers need to grow up a little before they reach their potential. Lots of fights broke out here on WC because someone gave a teenager a bad review, which they deserved, and someone stuck up for them because they felt sorry for the "kid." 

 

4. Too many Smut Writers

There is a genre of writing called “Erotica.” Smut writing is NOT erotica. What's the difference? In other famous words, “I'll know it when I see it.” Too many loney housewives on this site who write weird fiction and develop a following of weird people who gang up on people who call them on it. Get rid of the smut gangs.

 

5. Weird Names

What part of "enter your real name" at sign up don't you guys understand? Do not write "Psychic Vampire" as your screen name, put your initials at least, but jeez this isn't myspace, it just shows your immaturity. I'll admit, the coolest Pen-name I've seen a published author have is “Spyder Robinson,” but there's even a little bit of a real name in that too. You know the difference between a Pen Name and a Screenname.

 

6. Too many people get "mouthy"

Too many people here just don't know how good they're not. Only a handful of people here are published, some are decent, the rest are horrible and write because they think they're good or don't know they're not yet. When you try to give them a bad review, they tell you off. Look, I didn't like your writing, take it with a grain of salt and let it go. Now everyone is afraid to review other writers because they're afraid of getting assaulted over PM.



7. A Point System

What is up with this whole "Points" thing? When you sign on, you get a point and you get ranked according to points? WTF? This was implemented to get people to review writers who weren't getting reviews, another example of making accommodations for the people who suck at writing. Now the whole site is about accommodating bad writers. Writers are also ranked according to this point system but it's way off from the actual ranking of writers on this site, which is more unspoken than anything. We know who the good writers on this site are.



8. Disorganized Writing

People will ask for reviews of their poetry from people who only write stories or from people who hate poetry, or people will look to read a specific type of writing only to find it lost in a sea of dramatic emo poetry. Things will go a lot smoother if readers could find the type and caliber of writing they want to read, and writers could label what type and caliber of writing their writing is.



9. "Advertise" Your Writing?

Another example of this site allowing for shameless self-promoters. Look, if you're actively involved in the community and have anything resembling skill in writing, you will get reviewed. If not, then you won't. But hocking your crap in everyone's face is just rude. This feature was actually to see if WC could raise some funds, but whatever.



10. “Bashing” is censored.

Here's the thing, reviewers have a right to give their brutally honest opinions because in theory, that's what every writer should want right? However, it doesn't always go that way and people think there should be a little restraint exercised in all reviews. Above all, free speech needs to be protected. The problem is that it's not directed where it needs to be on this site. Everything is just free-for-all.



In conclusion, I really think this site just got too big and too out of hand. 4000 or 5000 people was very intimate and we all knew each other but 15000 is just way too massive and we're scattered all over holy hell. We should be organized a little better. This has become like a public school, half the people are smart and half the people are idiots and we have to make accommodations for the idiots.

 

There are many more problems, I've only listed a few. Please list more or write solutions below.

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[no subject]

11 Years Ago


Well, I'm impressed.  I agree with everything you've posted here.  I especially liked the points about "poetry w****s" and teenagers.  Indeed.  I'm a seasoned writer, having been a writer for over 30 years.  I have to admit that much of my writing here is raw and unedited.  I do this in order to get feedback on the prime material.  I prefer the old english forms of poetry.  I enjoy collaborating on projects as well.

I think that this needs to get back to the root of the issue and that is writers helping writers. 

Well stated forum. 

S.

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[no subject]

11 Years Ago


You seem to be obsessed with "Being Published" I for one have never been published... anywhere or anything, but I don't think that detracts from my ability or desire to be a writer.  You may recall that one of the first poems of mine you ever read, called Obsidian "Spoke to you and made you cry."  That was exactly what it was intended to do and I am proud to have written it and never had the slightest thought of having it published!
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[no subject]

11 Years Ago


1. Hummmm .... who decides who is 'amateur' and who is not? Poetry is subjective, what one person enjoys, someone else finds to be "not their cup of tea". You seem to have an "attack mentality", wanting to cordon off a group of friends and allies of like taste and appoint them the arbiters of what is good and right poetically. Transfer that attitude to society in general and you sound pretty much like the "radical religious right"

 

2. Are so what if someone tells you that "you just can't write" are you prepared to quietly accept that? You speak of kind reviews as if they are some sort of toxin.

 

3. So Anne Frank sucked then ... right? S.E. Hinton was a talentless hack? What about Christopher Paolini? You sound like you are VERY envious of anyone not named Nicole who gets a favorable review. This might not be what you are intending to project, but it's what I'm getting.

4. The total is up to two groups now. Teenagers and housewives are ill-suited to be writers according to you now. I am not a big reader of Erotica either, but once again you set yourself up at the arbiter "I'll know it when I see it!" So folks need only to check with you to know what is good and what is not ... right? By the way "lonely" is spelled L-O-N-E-L-Y, not L-O-N-E-Y.

 

5. I think if Charlie is okay with someone's WC name ... you can take a pill. relax!

 

6. Once again, you are seen telling people they are not good. What if you are no good? Who tells you? Since you seem to have appointed yourself the chief judge of good writing. Once again I say ... you sound like your primary agenda is to protect your perceived right to verbally assault people.


7. A Point System

You don't really have a clue do you? The point system is designed to generate activity. because activity generates page views which generates ad revenue. And once again, you seem obsessed with calling someone a bad writer. You sum up your agenda with your last line here when you say "We know who the good writers on this site are." You want a clique who are tagged "The in group" who dish out "cool" like it's yours and in very short supply by bullying other writers with aggressive reviews.

8. Orrrrr ... things might go a lot smoother if people simply stated what type of review they are looking for and others respected that.

9. I'm not a big fan of advertising one's writing either. But the venom I get reading your "manifesto" here is rather strong.

10. No, you don't have the right to be brutal. Honesty is good, but brutality is not. It's just as easy to say "this is not to my taste" as it is to say "this is worthless doggerel" but one isn't as much fun ... is it? When one has poor self-esteem they feel better about themselves by trying to make others feel smaller or inferior. You know, just like a racist or an anti-semite. You don't really understand the concept of free speech do you? Free speech is the right not to be imprisoned by the government for expressing your opinion; that's all. If you go into a museum and begin loudly berating an artist on display you might have your a*s thrown out and they would be well within their rights to do so. Likewise, you can and should be thrown out here for abusive behavior.


Yes ... there does seem to be some accomodation of idiocy ... doesn't there!

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[no subject]

11 Years Ago


Wow!!!  I must have been on drugs when I read this last evening.  Wait...I WAS!  Amending my previous post...here is what I think about any community.  Community is give and take.  PERIOD.  The newer members of the community are guided by the "more seasoned" members.  Tyrannical behaviors never survive.  I must have agreed with some of your points, however, for thie life of me I cannot remember.

I've slept since then.

 

People learn by making mistakes.  Charlie or no Charlie, this community is not dependant upon any owner.  This site thrives on the abilities of others to teach and be taught.  To learn how to take constructive criticisms and to give reviews and thoughts freely.  TO WHOMEVER.  I do think that there are many writers here that do not give reviews but rather are narcissistic and do not speak kindly of those that do give constructive criticisms.  The seasoned writers have learned to develop a thick skin so to speak however what makes this community unique is that although criticisms and reviews are necessary to growth, they are not taken personally or given personally.  They are give piece by written piece.

 

I believe that whomever the owner of this group is needs to develop more of a thick skin, and less of a tyrranical outlook on things. 

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[no subject]

11 Years Ago


Ok first of all I agree with a few of your points such as the mounds of poetry that suck, e.g. no rhyming, bad flow etc.  I really have to dissagree about the teenagers can't write thing.  I have many friends on here that are teenagers and some of them are much better than lots of adults on here.  Also as someone said writers such as Christopher Paolini are very good and I agree, even though I perfer reading books by Robert Jordan. 
When I review peoples writing, whether it is poetry or short stories, I do not just tell them they suck, even if they do.  I go through it and tell them what is wrong and what needs to be improved.  Maybe that will help them to do better later.  I myself am only 14 and I do not call myself a great writer.  I like writing short stories and I also write some poetry, but whenever I do I make sure it flows and at least Rhymes in a ABCB format, sometime though I also do a ABAB format.  I have not read your writing but If you can writer better short storier that Scott I will be suprised.  He is only 15 and is great at satire and comedies.
The point sytem also gets people active, if not for it the majority of people on here wouldn't really do anything, I agree that lots of people give dumb small reviews but if you really want better ones go to critiquecircle.org
Lots of younger writers may not be able to really write but its the same for adults.  You just see less adults because only serious writers will use their time cut down by work to write.
Concluding, I think that when you read someones work, you should help them know what is wrong with it, not hinder their chance to become better.  Young people definatly can write.  And writers cafe is unique, there is many other writers group for the more serious reviews and such, writers cafe is just a fun "comunity" where you can post writing for people to look at and review.
Thanks for you time, hope this opens some eyes.
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[no subject]

11 Years Ago


Oh my God Creepy Pig Guy, not only have you hit everything on the nose...but you have pulled big bouts of laughter from me.   Thanks for the humor and wit, such a delightful combination.

Tigra

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[no subject]

11 Years Ago


Originally posted by The Titan...

Ok first of all I agree with a few of your points such as the mounds of poetry that suck, e.g. no rhyming, bad flow etc.  I really have to dissagree about the teenagers can't write thing.  I have many friends on here that are teenagers and some of them are much better than lots of adults on here.  Also as someone said writers such as Christopher Paolini are very good and I agree, even though I perfer reading books by Robert Jordan. 
When I review peoples writer, whether it is poetry of short stories, I do not just tell them they suck, even if they do.  I go through it and tell them what is wrong and what needs to be improved.  Maybe that will help them to do better later.  I myself am only 14 and I do not call myself a great writer.  I like writing short stories and I also write some poetry, but whenever I do I make sure it flows and at least Rhymes in a ABCB format, sometime though I also do a ABAB format.  I have not read your writing but If you can writer better short storier that Scott I will be suprised.  He is only 15 and is great at satire and comedies.
The point sytem also gets people active, if not for it the majority of people on here wouldn't really do anything, I agree that lots of people give dumb small reviews but if you really want better ones go to critiquecircle.org
Lots of younger writers may not be able to really write but its the same for adults.  You just see less adults because only serious writers will use their time cut down by work to write.
Concluding, I think that when you read someones work, you should help them know what is wrong with it, not hinder their chance to become better.  Young people definatly can write.  And writers cafe is unique, there is many other writers group for the more serious reviews and such, writers cafe is just a fun "comunity" where you can post writing for people to look at and review.
Thanks for you time, hope this opens some eyes.


Thanks, Greg! You brought tears to my eyes...*wipes tears away*
Alright, this is to everyone on here that says Writerscafe has gone down the sewer--if you are really bothered by it, JOIN A NEW WRITING SITE!
I myself am not a big fan of writerscafe and only stay here because I know some people that I don't want to lose contact with. If you really want a site that is connected and together, I suggest;
CritiqueCircle.com. www.critiquecircle.com. Much better than WC (imho). We don't have to 'take responsibility' for a site that we didn't start, you guys. Just find a new one. 

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[no subject]

11 Years Ago


"4. Too many Smut Writers

There is a genre of writing called “Erotica.” Smut writing is NOT erotica. What's the difference? In other famous words, “I'll know it when I see it.” Too many loney housewives on this site who write weird fiction and develop a following of weird people who gang up on people who call them on it. Get rid of the smut gangs."

 

Well, well, well,

 

Let me put my two cents worth if I may.  I feel the need to defend mine and other "smut writer's" posted work on this site.  First of all I am FAR from being a "lonely house wife." Erotia is about Sex.....go ahead say it... S-E-X.  I have been writing for over 28 years now and I believe I've learned a thing or two in that time.  I use my imagination and experience to write my stories and poetry.  "You'll know it when you see it". That's great for you because what you consider smut may be considered a classic peice of writing by someone else.  The problem I have with your tirade, is the arrogance of presenting your opinion, (because that is truly all it is) as simple fact which is not a realistic approach.   I used the above example because I felt insulted not only for my self but for my fellow Erotica (ie smut as you put it)writers and feel the need to defend our craft.  Yes it is a craft.  I am not a poet. Nor am I a shakespearen genious. I am however, like so many others here, a lover of expressing myself through words and story telling.  Also, the whole Teenagers can't write opinion is so off the charts wrong that it doesn't even deserve to be argued.  I have read some of the most heart wrenching well written pieces  of writing  on this site by those very teens that  you seem so quick to discard.  These kids need to be encouraged and nurtured not kicked when their down. 

 

As far as the "Gangs" go,  as humourous as I find that statement I have to say that the opinion you have that we gang up on any one who Calls us on .....What was it we were being called on, "Wierd Fiction" is this a new Genre I've never heard about?  Look I said it at the beginning of this reply and I will close by saying it again.  I write about good ol' S-E-X, the forbidden fantasies we "housewives".. are missing out on, if you wish.  If you like my writing that is great if you don't well that's okay too. 

 

Just remember, whether your opinion on one of my writings is good, or bad, the literature still grabbed you enough to sit down and read it so you could have that opinion!

 

Erotica writers of the world UNITE!

 

Mia :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[no subject]

11 Years Ago


I think it's time someone said it. 
What's It you ask? What they always say.

You'll never win! It'll never work! Good will triumph!

There. I said it. Now I'll state my arguments.
1. If someone can't write poetry leave them to wallow in their on heap of unskill. If you really MUST review them just tell 'em you don't like it and hope their thick skinned! That's how I feel anyway.

2. Same as one. If they can't write leave them. Lots of people who can't write are published, so it's always worth trying.

3. Bah humbug! Teenagers will always try out everything. Look at us! Gaming, Writing, even sex(Not me of course, I haven't done that last one). But on, we can't be stopped! Wheres the good in trying to stop us? There are many teens in the world and frankly I can't see why that can't TRY writing. And heck, some of them do have talent. I don't think I do, but there are a good amount of at least mediocre people even on here that are teens.

I'll skip 4, thank you very much.

5.Oh COME ON! Thats the way of the world. On no site can everybody have normal names. It's either 1337PWNX0R or Firey_Destructor_Man or something, but you can't keep people from having weird names.

6. Well I knid of agree with you there. I'd encourage people to be thick skinned and easy going. :D

7. I also agree with you here. Points are weird. See? I'm not all argue.

8. Not a bad idea. I agree with you.

9. I agree with you again. However I believe that if someone soliciting you for reviews is getting on you nerves, you should simply ask them to stop or block them.

10. If everybody went around bashing everybody else this would be one big bloody mess. I believe in crititcism, and I like brutal critiques, but you can't get everyone to.

I don't think you should try to take over WC. I mean, it's not THAT bad. You don't like it? Leave it in da dust. And if you take Scotts suggestion and go over to CC, by jove don't ruin it! I love that place. Anyway, I'm rambling now. I'll just go and scream weird and eldritch things in a corner...