Anti-psychiatry Forum A Nessessary Evil

I think psychatry is a nessessary evil. Did t=you know Hitler was nearly sent to Carl Jung (or it could have been Freud... I can remember) in Vienna? However his parents thought little of the field of psychaitry and so did not send him as it was expensive.

Imagine what a little belief in what is called "mind control" here can do, or could have done in wee Adolfs case...

Mind control is hogwash and is not nescessary only those that are evil will go for it, are you evil? That is your choice, but believe I will do my best to educate you.

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- Am I evil... I think not, but when one has lost control of their mind to the extend they are slashing their wrists, puking their guts up deliberatly and such, people have to step in.

A messed up mind will never fully heal, their enviroment can be improved by family and friends altrering their expectations of the person and offering support, but to get someone back from those thoughs medication is NOT enough... the problems have to be talked through.

A new way for approaching and dealting with those problems has to be found, and if that is mind control then that is good, for the mind heretofor was out of control.

How many patients were told by their psychiatrists to go and likk their families? NONE.

How many patients were told by their psychaitrists they were worthless, ugly and should kill themselves? NONE.

A person may or may not be physically attractive (if that is the problem), but they must look at themselves a different way. They may have suffered pain, but if that is past they must see they are in controol of their future, they must block out this past, understand how it happened and make sure it is not done to any one dear to them.

How is that wrong?

A car gone askew and rashed has to be steered back onto the road, A boat gone askew and grounded has to be steered back onto the water. ANd a mind gone askew has to be steered back onto the right way of thinking, both my medication and by psychaitry. FACT!

Those that wont help themselves on the other had... we should not worry about them, just the costs of burying them. For thats what they leave behind... heartache and bills.

See here is why Tomas makes sense. If you give someone a pill without inquiring about their life style and factors that affect their life such as age, stress, etc. You may get the pill not reacting favorably. There could be even conditions where inputs from hormones and ligands override the effect of any pill. Therefore yes we can't depend on only pharmacy and no it is not as black and white as the hunger strike questions are. In some cases drugs may be enough in others drugs may not be enough, in some cases the drug works but we don't even know how it works. Sometimes depresion can come from something as far removed as a irregular ovulation cycle. That's how intricately the body is connected. So finding the proper drug is more of an art than a science.

I will wager something with you for fun. Lets imagine a scenario. Lets say I told you how to make a simple polymer molecule. I told you the theory behind making bullet proof glass for instance, which requires two molecules and the linking of two functional groups. And then I told you to run an experiment in the lab to synthesize bulletproof glass. So remember you are working only with two molecules in two respective solvents as needed for the reaction in a simple glass vessel. Lets see how much yield you are gonna get and then compare that to what a physiologist has to put up with when applying a pill for something as complex as the human organism.

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- Am I evil... I think not, but when one has lost control of their mind to the extend they are slashing their wrists, puking their guts up deliberatly and such, people have to step in.

(janie) That is a perception, what I think is if someone is not hurting anyone else they should be left alone maybe they do need the support of mutual and agreed to friends that really care about them and want what is best for them they have to be able to choose those friends though or it won't help, and if at any point they actually are about to die or kill someone and they need to be hospitalized then they need to be left alone then, once they are locked up they can no longer be considered as a danger to themself or others, Jim Gottstein won a case in Alaska saying just this.

A messed up mind will never fully heal, their enviroment can be improved by family and friends altrering their expectations of the person and offering support, but to get someone back from those thoughs medication is NOT enough... the problems have to be talked through.

(Janie) Are you talking about permanent brain damage, or your personal judgement of another persons frame of mind? Dwelling on the bad things does not help a person it never has and never will as I know of, getting the right opportunities, the assistance one actually wants and needs, and having freedom and choice and self determination always does help if a person really wants it too. You are not God are you, and what facts can you give to us to show this that dwelling on the past is helpful or that one can not ever overcome adversity or hardships in their life I think that many people have done just this over time? You would need to give some valid and reliable scientific evidence of this, unless you are talking about brain damage from drugs or another kind of injury to the brain or actual illness or atrophy to the brain? A person going through a divorce, loss of highly important job, loss of a child, a life transition, a child's misbehavior is not a permanent mind disesease although at this point in time that is what is being labeled as such and drugged.

A new way for approaching and dealting with those problems has to be found, and if that is mind control then that is good, for the mind heretofor was out of control.

(janie) You must find in yourself that your ideas, oppinions, theories, wants, needs, and such do not have to be exactly the same as everyone elses? I think people need to accept responsibility for themself and that would do in a lot of cases, these pills do not control people they often make them so out of control that they do not and in some cases can not control themselves in many cases.

How many patients were told by their psychiatrists to go and likk their families? NONE.

(janie) I think you must ask how many people were under the influence of this treatment when they did this kind of a thing in the first place or had so called been treated by a psychiatrist or mental health professional before hand? I can name off some examples, the columbine shooter and the virginia tech incident.

How many patients were told by their psychaitrists they were worthless, ugly and should kill themselves? NONE.

(janie) What do you think they go there for so that they can tell them how good they feel about them self, if they didn't say they felt bad incapable of caring for themself and making their own decissions in life then they would not be going to these people isn't that the purpose for this, that is why you have to be so called sick and stay sick to recieve this treatment otherwise there is no way to sell it to others. They can't keep going or get what they really actually want and need if they don't say this stuff.

A person may or may not be physically attractive (if that is the problem), but they must look at themselves a different way. They may have suffered pain, but if that is past they must see they are in controol of their future, they must block out this past, understand how it happened and make sure it is not done to any one dear to them.

(janie) This can be done in so many ways and does not require this kind of false quackery to do this, self help books and tapes are a good example, good friends and a free society with good neighbors in it, if it is a free spirited thing then anyone has the right to choose or not, to accept or not, and lots of people do just this all the time, over time as people age they naturally change and mature in many cases and with the right situations, circumstances, and people can even achieve in different ways, lots of times luck changes things over time

How is that wrong?

(janie) It is only wrong when it is based on a lie and then it is seen as a medical treatment and coerced and forced on others, do you agree that you may not think exactly like me and me not like you and that might not make either of us more right or more wrong only different in thinking and that you have the right to think like you do?

A car gone askew and rashed has to be steered back onto the road, A boat gone askew and grounded has to be steered back onto the water. ANd a mind gone askew has to be steered back onto the right way of thinking, both my medication and by psychaitry. FACT!

(janie) No you have to give scientific evidence, not just your oppinion, for this to be fact so it is not fact it is your way of looking at it is all

Those that wont help themselves on the other had... we should not worry about them, just the costs of burying them. For thats what they leave behind... heartache and bills.[/quote]

(janie) Neither you nor I can help anyone that doesn't want to change, you know that and so do I, and yet your views here include the use of coercion and force don't they? If the truth is to be known and the fact is that we all die at some point in time that is not something we can get out of is it? It is a choice to live as long as we can as best as we can and I do agree to that, a person can only push one to death quicker by pushing this treatment on them and pushing themselves on another who is unwilling because no one can be with another person 24/7 365 it is impossible.

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(janie) you are talking about two different things here and people are not glass nor plastic nor machines now are they?

That's my point. They are ten million times more complex. So if there are unpredictable results with fixing machines think of how difficult it is to fix a human.

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And look here killing and brain damaging a whole population of people is not nescessary or is it?