Scary Story Writers Group Forum Fluffy Business

Well, it seems we've lost a few members...ah well, what are you gonna do? It seems some people cannot relate to my need for going on the offense when someone decided to be just plain nasty in their review. From this I created a club that is already getting peoples feathers ruffled. Again, ah well, what are you gonna do?
To me, life isnt and shouldnt be a popularity contest. it also shouldnt be about hurting others. I was accused of being a fluffy reviewer who sugar coats things...I am also a b***h as well....to this I say: You have the right to your opinion, but that doesn't make it right.
Do I give out bitchy reviews? Are my reviews filled with extensive teacher like instructions on how to better the piece? Hell no! I'm not like that. I don't go through life looking for things to pick apart or people to kick when they are down.
I've had this done to me in the past, and I will never allow it again...I have never been a part of such behavior and I never will be. Often times in life, standing up for yourself doesn't make you popular, but it sure makes it easier to sleep at night.
At least for me anyway.
Call me whatever you want. It's alright. If you want to be critiqued harshly and have your stuff picked into shreds until there is nothing left..then I guess you shouldnt ask me to review your piece. I read it with a positive eye. I look for what I like...what I related to...what I enjoyed...I dont look for mistakes and I dont do editing. If you want an honest opinion with positivity, then send me your stuff to read. please!

I think it's harder to leave a good review than a mean one.

If I don't think something is very good, I just won't leave a review because I don't want to be mean about it. What's that old Bambi saying??? If you can't say something nice, it's better to say nothing at all.

I think if a work hasn't gotten any reviews and it's been around a while, the author would get the idea.

I help with spelling errors and that's about it- mostly because I catch 'em (once in a while, sometimes my eye corrects it before my brain logs it) and cause copy/pasting into these forums and stuff can gets seriously screwed up.. ::drool:: See?? A spelling error-- and that's my typing mistake!!! ::biggrin::

Anyway, thanks for being a great mod of the group and it's better to just let mean people go their own way.

Thank you Shanna...and you are 100% right. It is harder to leave a nice one than a nasty one. It is easy to tear things apart...to bring people down...but why?
I have gotten some great help on here, and i have taken it to heart and made changes and noticed how much better my writing was because I listened to anothers advice!
thank you!

Chrissy ::smile::

When I review a story, I try to be constructive, regardless of who it is for. But, if I see a lot of negatives in a story, I try to fins a positive as well. The sad thing with mean reviews is that if the person would just think about how it would make them feel to get something that is just done in poor tastes or judgement then they make think twice about it.

"Thoughtless words leave lasting wounds"
~~ Rick Warren
A Purpose Driven Life

I've come to believe this completely. As we review stories, we should always try and be thoughtful in our comments--it saves on the heartache and anger on down the road.

AJ

While I certainly appreciate constructive criticism (it's a rare thing, indeed ...), you really can't be in this game (the writing game, that is) without expecting some trash talk. Yes, writing is an art to express yourself, but getting it published (and let's face it, this site is a venue for publication to a degree) is an invitation for criticism. If you can't take it, keep your stories locked up in a notebook somewhere. If you truly write for yourself, then you don't need to be published. If you're seeking publication, you're seeking readers and readers, as they should be, are usually critical. Sometimes they're helpful, sometimes they're curt, sometimes they're too honest, and sometimes they're just plain ignorant or mean. But, that's their problem, not yours. Let it roll off and keep writing!

In my own critiques or reviews of people's work, I definitely try to make sure I mention the positive, but I don't shy away from the negative. If you're asking for reviews, or at least when I'm asking for reviews, I'm not asking for people to reinforce my own opinion of my work. I'm asking for an (supposed) objective third party to suggest improvements and encourage what works, so I can improve my craft. If all you have around you are "yes" men, so to speak, you never bother to strive to better yourself, because everyone's already telling you you're fine. It's definitely a double-sided coin: while you suggest room for improvement, you also don't let the great aspects fall by the wayside; you want the author to nuture that, as well.

So, I guess as our mod suggested not submitted your work to her if you want harsh critiques, don't submit your work to me if you just want flower pedals and gum-drops.

I agree and I disagree with you Justin. Honest reviews should be helpful and aimed at suggesting improvements. This, I agree with. What I dont agree with is that you suggest that in order to be honest, you have to be mean sometimes....I do not agree with that.
This entire subject is getting ridiculous. Why? Because I dont care why you or Joe and Sam or Stacy post something on here....be it for publication or personal pleasure--who's business is it? Read and review to be helpful, otherwise, dont review.
No single person, or even a dozen people can speak for a million readers...each opinion is a SINGLE opinion. It isnt a indication of a writers ability to be pulbished someday. I believe my writing is very good...every piece is always ready for improvement, but the point is, what the writer is trying to convey and what you perceive as you read it might be polar opposites..in which case, who's to say what is right and what is wrong? What is good and what is bad?
There are best sellers out there right now on the bookshelves that you could NOT pay me to read! There are books on the shelf that are barely selling, that are bought and loved by maybe only 300 people! Does that mean it sucks? No. It all comes down to individuality and personal preference.
For example...how many have you read Victoria Laurie or Yasmine Galenorn? They aren't on the best sellers list, and they might not be worshipped by "Critics" but I tell you what: The day their books are released I am at that bookstore, in line, eagerly awaiting to buy those damn books! I wait and anticipate certain authors books for over a year at a time...the day they're released, Im there to buy it.
My point is, How can you ever truly measure what is great and what isnt?
By what? Whose standards? Who is right? who is wrong? Who is smarter? Who is boring?
If I write something and self publish it and 10 people buy it and email me and say: " I LOVED THIS! PLEASE WRITE MORE!" OR: "That song you wrote made me cry!" Then I have accomplished my every goal. Doesnt matter if one or one million people loved it...I am always proud of everything I write. ;)
Chrissy

I would like to clarify that I never said you have to be mean to be honest. I said that sometimes readers are honest, but sometimes they're just ignorant or mean. I also said that it's possible to address negatives in a constructive way. By pretending there's never room for improvement, we're ignoring the pink elephant in the room. My entire point to my posts was that the easiest path is for the author to learn to take criticism with a grain of salt, with some discrimination, rather than to try and change an a*****e into an angel, so to speak.

Also, yes, art is subjective. Of course. But when you're an artist (or writer, in this case) and you put your work out there for people to read, you have to expect a critical eye. That's all there is to it and there's no changing it. Some people will say "Well, not my thing, but I can see the merit." Some people will say, "That's the worse piece of crap I've ever laid eyes on!" but that's how it is.

See, Justin, I understand what you're saying. I agree that having a bunch of "yes" men around is useless. You do need an objective (yeah, right, objective!) opinion- someone who just read it and gives you the straight truth- I enjoyed it, no I didn't enjoy it.

But I do think there is a difference between giving a truthful review and a downright nasty mean one.

When I say, 'if I can't find anything nice to say, I don't say anything at all', what I mean is- 'Wow, whatever I just read was just awful. It wasn't original, it was just cliche after cliche, and it was downright poorly written.'

I have a story I posted in the Writer's Cafe group on myspace, prior to joining here, and I'd finished it that morning, it was more or less just a rough draft, and I'd written it for a contest on Writing.com. Anyway, I was really eager to hear what people had to say (first mistake) and I just wanted to hear if it sounded like it was good so far. I said it wasn't really done yet, but just wanted an idea of how it's going.

Of all the replies, most were just downright mean. And they weren't even "Wow, this was soo awful, I can't believe yada yada yada". 2 of them just said "Didn't finish it." That was it. That was harsher than the prior example. I can live with at least someone finishing it and saying, hey this part really dragged me down, over all it sucked. But of maybe the 10 people or so who commented, 4 maybe actually read the whole thing and then offered commentary.

Now, the ones who were constructive- if harsh- really helped a lot. That story has gone on to become a favorite in a lot of libraries and has been called 2x a rockin' ghost story. ::biggrin:: Those who were constructive if harsh did help. But those who were just rude and mean didn't do a damned thing for me.

If you're harsh, I can live with that. At least you're constructive and would really like to see improvements made and offer suggestions for those improvements, but when you're just mean- it doesn't do anybody any good.

You, I know, are OK. I've read your reviews on a few stories and they could be a little harsh, but you are only trying to help. I've read other reviews that were just mean. Just mean. ::mad:: Those people I can't stand..

Okay, enough ranting from me. This reply took forever- my smoke alarms started going off for now reason- ALL of 'em. Turns out they need new batteries.. ::tongue:: Ooops.. ::biggrin::

I suppose I should clarify further. Mean reviews are not "ok." My point was never that it was okay to be mean. It's not productive at all to be mean, in fact. My point is that some people are mean, so you just have to get over it, since you can't let their problem become yours.

Also, are you saying my reviews are okay, or are you talking to someone else? I haven't had the chance to review many people on here and the few that I did were very positive, so I was just curious.

See?? I spent so much damn time trying to fix the smoke alarms, and calling the landlords, and then talking to the guy who came down.. It took like 30 minutes to finish that stupid post.. Err... and Justin basically said what I said, albeit briefer so automatically better. I am far too longwinded. ::drool:: Oh well..

No, Justin, you are cool.

My internet is being really slow- and I know that other post was confusing cause halfway through it my thoughts got all screwed up when everything in my house went to hell and now I'm having an argument with the kiddos to take a nap. ::biggrin::

Sorry it was confusing. After I saw your other post, I was trying to give an example of harsh but constructive critism and just downright mean critism, but again, my thoughts weren't translating well.

I was trying to agree with you saying that not every review can be 100% positive, but (as you just said in like the post right above this that it doesn't have to mean) not necessarily just mean either.

So---- to try to clear up my thoughts and my posts:

I agree with CMV that yes, reviews can be nice and don't need to be mean.

I agree with you that sometimes it is better to have an honest review, even if it seems harsh to the writer (because anything that isn't glowing seems harsh and we all know this) because it can be constructive and that's what's important.

Am I making any sense?? Probably not. If the internet were working better, I might be making better sense. :P

That's ok if you don't make sense. Writers don't have to make "sense" ... they're "artistic" :P

Chrissy, I don't think this post has gotten ridiculous. You are garnering a reaction and debate on the subject, which validates it.

I think rudeness is ridiculous, especially in the case of reviews. You can be constructive and get your point across without being rude.

But, more than anything else posted on here I think one thing you said in particular is what writing comes down to: If I write something and self publish it and 10 people buy it and email me and say: " I LOVED THIS! PLEASE WRITE MORE!" OR: "That song you wrote made me cry!" Then I have accomplished my every goal. Doesnt matter if one or one million people loved it...

I completely agree with this--100%.

AJ

Thanks everyone! AJ, I love your objectivity.
Justin, I didnt mean to offend you in anyway and I agree with the fact that honest critiques are great--but they have to be put tactfully...who is ever really going to respond well to the feeling of being attacked or ridiculed?
Anyways, thanks everyone. I appreciate opinions. Don't think I don't.
I just think kindness creates more confidence than cruelty.
Shanna, I hear ya on the review thing...my piece that was ripped to pieces was only a short Prologue I wrote 2 years ago...not even sure I was going to ultimately use it in the finished story...

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LMAO.. that's good cause I very rarely ever make sense. ::drool::

Hi everyone! It seems Dana and I have called a truce and an end to the back and forth bashing, Hopefully it will stay peaceful. I think we are both just--strong minded people? (b*****s?) and we clashed!
All is well....Im sorry for dragging anyone into the silliness.

love,
chrissy