The Wood Beyond The World Forum Reading habits or "How do..

There has been alot of discussion on how we as writers developement of characters, and incorporate religion, politics, magic, and other worth while topics, into our work. I think those topics shows similar but individual tastes for all of us, and that is a good thing in my opinion.

With that thought in mind, I wonder how we each go about in choosing a book, and how we go about reading it and finally in how we judge the book.

I will start.

For me its simple. I mostly read fictional work for enjoyment and to be entertained by being carried away into the authors world. Real or imagined. Now, not counting the classic's which for many of us were required reading first, here are a few thoughts on my reading habits, past and present.

Many years ago I was into detective and spy thrillers, all because a friend suggested two new authors to me one day. Edward S Aarons took me to parts of the world I have never visited before, but I felt as if I was there. John D. McDonneld showed me the seedy side of America with his Travis McGee series, and I felt his work was even better than Micky Spilline's Mike Hammer.

Since I was a young teen, I read all the works of Ms Andre Norton, the first coming at the suggestion of my mother. During college, I even had the pleasure of communicating with Ms Norton while she lived in Florida. I will miss this lady, who is considered the Grand dame of SF&F.

So here I have noted several authors, all on the advice of someone else. As they say in the publishing industry...word of mouth is the single largest seller.

Now, short of suggestion, when I go to the book store, I can spend an hour or more just searching the shelves for just the right book. If a new book is out by an author I already enjoy, I will try to find it first, then search for others that I am behind on. I usually leave with 2 to 3 books, all hard bound. Needless to say...this only happens about 3 times a year because of the price of hardbound, but I am addicted to hard bound books because I collect them and read them over and over. Other times I search the used book stores to find out of print books to complete a series, or replace a missing book of mine.

In choosing a book, I always brouse the book first, reading the jacket and inside blurbs, especially if a new author I am unfamiliar with. Then I progress to the opening and if the opening intrigues me, I might scan a few more pages further in and even near the end...but never the ending. If it continues to hold my interest, it will be on the list...before leaving, I will make the choice from all those that made it to my list. Depending on my mood, the reading will run the gambit on what I choose.

In days of old, I could devore a book in a matter of hours or days, depending on size and ease of read. Now a days, with all my obligations as well as my own writing, I have to find the time. And that time is usually waiting for appointments, doctors, car, etc. I will often times read right before bed, unless I have been writing. Now if its a really good book that I have been wanting to get to, I will make the time.

As to when I am done, how do I judge the book. If it was hard to put down...I would rate it very good and even recommend it to a friend. If the author took me into their world, and their world invades my dreams, well then I will even want to discuss it with others. And that to me, is when a book really hit a nerve, is when readers sit and discuss it with others, learning what each got from the book.

On the other hand, if the book was like 100 others I read, even if interesting, then that is all I rate it, just interesting entertainment. IE the Da Vinci Code.

So, is just entertaining bad? Well, Dan Brown has to make a living and because of the Da Vinci Code, he is now making a very comfortable living. I think the man can more than likely sleep at night.

Well, these are my thoughts and habits, from the average reader.
Nick.

Usually books need to have interesting titles or cover art for me to even pick them up. If there's a picture of an elf fighting a dragon or something, or the title involves the word "sword" or "magic" or anything like that (i.e. the Sword of Shannara, etc.) then I won't even look twice.

When I do pick up a book, there has to be some sort of hinting of originality or authenticity, since I've already read so many cookie-cutter fantasies that, no matter how exciting their battles are, they simply will not hold my interest at all. There needs to be some obvious deeper theme explored in the work, something about the human condition, the nature of evil/good, and just strong themes that carry the plot on their shoulders.

For instance, my most recent fantasy pick was the book The Darkness That Comes Before, by R. Scott Bakker. The fact that I had never heard of him, had never seen him on TV, and that there was barely any cover art and that the title was interesting were enough for me to pick it up. Turns out it's a very original fantasy with lots of good intellectual themes throughout to ponder about. I guess those are the things I look for when finding a book to read. Oh, and if there either isn't a map, or the map is actually realistically shaped and not just tailored to fit onto a small rectangle, that helps too.

Andy,

Yes, cover art also has a play for me as well. If it draws my eyes to it, I will more than likely pick it up to see what its about.

Now you said...

When I do pick up a book, there has to be some sort of hinting of originality or authenticity, since I've already read so many cookie-cutter fantasies that, no matter how exciting their battles are, they simply will not hold my interest at all. There needs to be some obvious deeper theme explored in the work, something about the human condition, the nature of evil/good, and just strong themes that carry the plot on their shoulders.

How do judge orginality, or the obvious deeper theme's your require from a browsing. Do you make that judgement from the jacket blurb, or skimming through the opening, or further into the book, or from the suggestions of others?

Just wondering.
Nick.

Ah, lovely. Another delightful can of worms to open up. Thanks Nick.

You said: Quote:


For me, it depends on my mood. There are my popcorn reads and then my challenging reads. I will read Tom Clancy and then shift to Ayn Rand, depending on my mood and wants.

When I was younger, I ripped through every single sci-fi book that existed. Be it pulp fiction to the harder stuff. And that continued into my adult life. I didn't get into fantasy until the mid 70's, when I was close to 20. I had was an elitist, thinking only kids read fantasy.

I was a constant in my high school library. When I was not reading sci-fi, I was into fiction. So I got into more contemporary writers like Neville Shute, Irving Wallace, Len Deighton, etc. I never was much into mysteries. Because of my habits, I just picked up a book, check the blurb and read the first couple of pages. If it caught my interest, I would attempt it.

Forty years later, I am the still same way. I give any recommendations a grain of salt. There are only a couple of friends I trust with recommendations. The rest I just find myself.

I was into Clancy and Ludlum before they were big. Same as Larry Niven, Charles Sheffield or James Hogan. The test was does something tickle my fancy within the first few pages. If not, back on the shelves.

You said: Quote:


I suppose I am lucky because I take public transit. I have lost count of the number of times I've missed my subway stop because I was engrossed in a book. At the same time, I give myself down time just to read, be it on a sunny day in the park or curled up under my comforter. I need that me time to keep me sane.

Then you said: Quote:


For me, it comes down to what did I expect from the book. My expectations from J.K. Rowlings is quite different from David Brin. Or Iain Banks. I can't quantify the satisfaction metric save was it worth the trip?

Which leads me to Dan Brown. Argh! What a hack! The prose was so turgid I could not get through it easily. And ending each chapter with a "cliff-hanger" made me want to wretch. Even worse, having read things like Holy Blood, Holy Grail, it was throughly unoriginal.

Clancy and Ludlum are not known for their prose but they lead me on a ride. Bourne Identity is a good example. Even when I groaned at some of the dialogue, the plot propelled me because it was something different, something new. Dan Brown just rehashed conspiracy theories that originated back in the early 80's yet added nothing new.

This thread has given me an idea. I suggest we compile a list, each of us giving some recommendations on good books. I can build an excel spreadsheet and have it available off-site via my website. An interesting project?

First, I'm glad to hear someone else echo my exact sentiments on Dan Brown.

I've always read kind of weird. I read stuff I've heard about from sources I trust, like my sister and my mom, when I was a kid, and friends and professors as I got older. I don't do a lot of bookstore shopping -- that is except for when I was working in one, and everyday held prospects for purchase. I read more experimentally when I was able to take home stripped copies of paperbacks -- mysteries (Elizabeth Peters, some of the medieval mysteries, I forget the authors' names) mostly. I use the public library, when it's adequate, and look for books at yard sales, flea markets, thrift stores, and used book stores. With the internet it's easy to get whatever I have a hankering for used, cheap (sometimes the shipping is more than the cost of the book) online. Right now I have enough unread books in the house to last me for years, probably.

I don't usually judge a book by its cover. I might look at the dust jacket for what it's "about" -- but I make my decision of read or not to read by skimming the first few pages.

Past favorites:

(non-fantasy) J.D. Salinger, Jorge Luis Borges, Franz Kafka (well, those last two are sort of fantasy), Hermann Hesse, Jack Kerouac, Mary Renault, Jane Austen, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Vladmir Nabakov, Sylvia Townsend Warner, Lawrence Durrell, Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., this is a very incomplete list . . . .

(fantasy) Tolkien of course, Peter S. Beagle, James Branch Cabell, Lewis Carroll, T. H. White, Mervyn Peake, E. R. R. Eddison, I haven't really read much fantasy since it became a category in the bookstores.

Current favorites:

(non-fantasy) Arturo Perez-Reverte, Leo Tolstoy (for his way with characters and deft characterization), Salman Rushdie, Patrick O'Brian, John Le Carre, I can't really think of who else -- I'm not reading a whole lot these days.

(fantasy) Terry Pratchett, Cornelia Funke (young readers, officially, but darn good), Jonathan Stroud (ditto), Orson Scott Card, still not reading a lot of fantasy, I'm afraid. I've read almost all the Redwall books, because my second youngest son got interested in them.

I have several authors on my "to read" list, mostly "foreigners" -- Turks and Indians and Latin Americans -- when I get my library card I'm hoping to begin reading more fiction.

I've read a lot of non-fiction -- cultural history, both pop and serious, philosophy in very odd patterns (lots of Kierkegaard). I like strange books about strange things like Cod, about the historical and social significance of the cod fishing industry.

There are individual books I love and go back to, though I'm not a big fan of all their authors' works. The Moviegoer, by Walker Percy; Orlando, by Virginia Woolf are two that come to mind at the moment.

And there's a wonderful graphic novelist I love right now, whose name is escaping me, a Morrocan (sp?) Jew, whose first big thing was called The Rabbi's Cat.

And damn me, I almost forgot James Joyce. Every 5 or 6 years I read Ullyses, and I get more out of it every time.

And for the other meaning of "how I read" -- I used to spend hours reading in the bathtub, but now I do most of my reading in bed. When I have a new Terry Pratchett I sit and read from beginning to end till I'm done, and everything else can go hang. I get carsick if I read in a moving vehicle, so even if I were a bus commuter I wouldn't be able to read while riding.

As the mother of five children I've done a lot of reading out loud too -- I read LotR to my boys -- the whole thing -- before I'd let them see any of the movies. Took almost as long as the time covered by the action of the novel. I love to read out loud, especially accents -- Redwall's great for that, as are Pratchett's Tiffany Aching books (YA titles.)

Funny thing is my first book that really remember as one of my favorites was "Island at the Top of the world" by Ian Cameron. Then I read "The Lord of the Rings", which then became my favorite in my teen years. From then I read the likes of Terry Brooks (I prefered the "Magic Kingdom" Series over the "Shannara" series however. Another read that bears found memories was Phillip Jose Farmer's "Riverworld" series.

My current reading tastes are rather perculiar. Of course I'd re-read any of the above, over and over...Lost all the copies in a house fire years back. Were I enjoy writing Fantasy, I tend not to read it often, but instead I find myself on the Supernatural, Thriller, Sci-Fi, and horror binge.

There are authors I would go and buy with out even checking the jacket, such as: Dean Koontz, Clive Barker, and Michael Crichton. I also will look at first anything by Douglas Preston and/or Lincoln Child and Terry Brooks.

I am also horrible at finishing trilogies or series of 3 or more books. I believe the only 3 series (3 or more books) I've read from start to finish are: "Lord of the Rings", "Riverworld", and the "Magic Kingdom" series.

What calls me in the book store? Well I travel a lot so I'm in the Airports quite a bit and spend a lot of time walking around those tiny book/magazine stores. I would say the cover and title, moreso the title, grabs my attention. From there I look at the author and consider whether I heard of him/her or not. Then it's onto the jacket. If still interested I may look at the prologue or first chapter and if that catches my interest then it's in the briefcase and enroute with me to some distant airport.

This could be of any genre and I've read books that I probably would not have picked up at a Borders or Barnse and Noble for the simple fact that I may have never walked down that particular isle.

Judging? My blindly bought authors above, I tend to have a preconceived notion on them, I assume they will be good. All of the above had kept me up many of times and talking to whoever will listen about the story as I read it. (A disappoint for my daughter since she too loves the same and we generally swap books.) However, the above have also caused me to put down a book and never to pick it up again, though not often. It was the story that did not interest me, not the writing.

But the same also goes for the unknowns that I just pick up. Do they keep me up, do they cause me to talk about them, or do I take a week, two, or a month. Note: Still haven't finished Da Vinci Code. Picked up others that I wanted to read and lost interest.

Again, this is not to say the writer does not appeal to me, it maybe the story or what's going on in my life at the moment. For instance, years ago I eagerly bought the sequel to Clive Barker's "Great and Secret Show" titled "Everville". I started it, then lost interest in it. But last year, I picked it up again and read it from start to finish. It took a while, since I'm busy and it's a large book, but this time I finished it. The same holds true with Harry Potter. Maybe once the thrill of the movies are long forgotten, I can pick the first one up and read it.

I listed a bunch of favorites, but I forgot the general question of how I judge a book. When it comes to fiction character is most important to me. If the characters seem to be real people (even if they're furry critters or trolls or creatures from another planet) the story usually gets my respect and holds my interest. Really memorable writing -- graceful or clever turns of phrase and such -- is always impressive. I value humor very highly too.

I can read plot-focused books, if they're original and plausible, but I don't admire them much if the characters are flat, there only to serve plot. I'm thinking of Michael Crichton, here, I'm afraid.

Basically I think if characters are fully developed significant themes naturally follow, and since stories for people are about people, plot should follow from character too. Plot in the sense of external events intertwining and building to a climax followed by a resolution isn't essential to a good story, in my opinion -- sometimes the significant events are entirely psychological, as in Ulysses, for example -- or in the more traditionally picaresque Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, or A Catcher in the Rye. Things happen, and they may be exciting or amusing things, but they aren't the real plot -- they're just events that lead the characters into a certain psychological experience. What happens in the character's head is the real plot.

I'm trying to have both kinds of plot in my books, though.

Just one more note, on judging a book by its cover.

Good cover art, good design, can inspire anyone to take a closer look at any book. Most fantasy covers are very traditional, representational -- it seems readers expect that. I have at least styles of cover art in mind for my own work -- something a bit Art Noveau, a cross between Maxfield Parish and Gustav Klimt, with a bit of Arthur Rackham and the pre-Raphaelites thrown in for good measure. I hope I get a chance to suggest such when I finally find a publisher.

Myself I generaly buy anywhere from 1-15 books at a time (paperback usually) and read them within the next several days (generally in 1-2 sittings, I read entirely too much I suppose).

I originally got into fantasy by reading Margarat Weis (dragonlance mostly) moved on eventually to mccaffery and then started reading feist. I tend to stay away from the newer sci-fi (in sci-fi I mostly read heinlein and isimov).

Didn't use to be but I've become very picky on what I'll read and I'm a bit more defined on what series I hate as opposed to those I like (get yellled at a lot for these, Shanara, Harry potter, most anything by mercedes lackey among others). Liked Lynn Flewellings nightrunner series but the didn't care much for her others, though it was somewhat original Anne Bishops dark jewels trilogy's didn't really do it for me either.

These days I usually comb used book stores for older, generally forgotten books and authors and have found some reasonably good ones (Michelle West's hunters books were rather nice to read).

I'm more of a fan of things i've read and less of a fan of things i want to read.

I don't know if anyone can tell from what they've read of my own writing, but i don't read fantasy, or I don't read traditional fantasy. This is what i have read that might come close:

Clive Barker's Imajica, The Great and Secret Show, Everville, The Thief of Always, etc.
Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia, his space trilogy Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandria, That Hideous Strength. King's Dark Tower series (among several other books). George RR Martin's series A Song of Ice and Fire (closest thing to fantasy i read). The really witty Thursday Next series by Jasper Fforde impressed me a lot (it's like harry potter for adults but in the library).

I'm a big fan of Hermann Hesse. I really dig eastern life journey narratives.
I like japanese literature: haruki murakami, Yasunari Kawabata, Natsume Soseki.

non-fiction and academic works like Joseph Campbell's many books (some of them post-humous). I like reading old texts on psychology like freud and Jung (before psychology became experimental and the language became scientific)

When Freud and Jung were on the scene, psychology was a philosophical exploration of self, of soul and their work was nothing without "writing" and the language they used to forge their place in the world picture really sinks in as a literature (and at times poetic) and less as a specialized study.

I enjoyed Heart of Darkness by Conrad, Jane Eyre by Bronte, Most Poe and HP Lovecraft, some Hawthorne, I love the Odyssey.

Arthur C Clarke's CHildhood's End was Amazing!

Mostly though, and maybe you'll wonder why i torture myself, i read collections on alchemical artwork, collection on celestial history as concepts of astronomy have evolved, i like astrology and how it informed the historical world, i'm fascinated by the maya and ancient civs, ancient architecture, and i watch history channel all the time. So mostly i pour through informative picture books (anyone whose read my Fragment: Departure probably can see that). I also browse through my collection of origami books looking for a nice model to fold every now and then.

Mostly, i read all these things for fun, it tickles my spiritual funny bone (you guys got one of those too?). But aside from reading psychology, about mythology and its function, alchemy and astronomy to the ancient thinker i read books on writing.

I want to write better. With all the above ingredients present, i want to learn better how to combine them (like an alchemist). :)

Adam:

I like your reading list. I forgot to mention Lovecraft as one my perennial favorites.

I'll always maintain that the best way to learn to write well is to read good writing -- sounds like you've got a good base there. Elements of Style is a good all around source for the basics beyond grammar.

You probably know that Jung was interested in alchemy too.

And yes, I've got a spiritual funny bone. You'd probably like Kierkegaard if you've got one that needs tickling, and you have any interest in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

Kierkegaard rules. I have a BA in Philosophy :) (nervous grin)
I actually Like Spinoza a lot. He has been a big influence on my Cosmos.
Neo-Platonism and Zoroastrianism i'm familiar with, do they count? :)

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Bless you, my son. . . . ::biggrin::

I actually started a masters in philosophy once upon a time -- what I couldn't stand was how damned serious everyone was about it. Went back to English, my BA (minor in philosophy of religion.) I now have graduate credits in philosophy, sociology, English, and education -- and still only a BA. At least a novel is something I can finish.

Leah,

Yes, the philosophy department (I have a minor) taught me what the pejorative form of the word "academic" was all about.

These philosophy profs, of necessity, wrote papers, and then 3 or 5 dozen people would show up to hear them read, and maybe 2 people in the room had any inkling what the author was speaking about. Didn't even remind us of English language.

Academic means knowledge which need never leave the room, cause it isn't going to have the least affect on the real world.