The Wood Beyond The World Forum Roleplaying as an influence an..

I am unique from the rest of you guys in that I am an expierenced roleplayer, but have never touched D&D, no small thanks given to my Christian parents. I am a forum post-by-post roleplayer. Basically, imagine a book being written by a certain amount of people and you have the general idea of what it is.

I have found that forum roleplaying has actually helped me focus on my writing. If I am having writer's block on my book, I'll go do some RPing. Then the gears in my head will be turning, and it will be back to novel writing!

I am the type that prefers to play in RPs rather than be the guy who creates the story and such. But the one time I DID make my own RP, it was a major hit. The sign up was filled up in less than a week. I have never seen another RP on that site get such a quick response...especially form a just registered member! :p

The actual RP lasted for a month, but 15 pages worth of IC posts isn't such a bad number, eh?

Matt,  many of us are familiar with forum/ online role playing.  It is just an extension of role playing at home.   Can it be fun, sure.  Can it be enlightening, sure.  

 

But I think what Loekie, I, and others are saying is that we progressed to our own worlds outside of the PRG playing, because the PRG was limiting our creative juices.   Its like writing fanfic.   Its fun and you get the basic drift, but you are still using someone else's creations, worlds, etc.  Fanfic maybe fun to cut your teeth on, but eventually you want your own world, and it more fulfilling.

 

Creating something of your own, and having a reader say, this is different and I like...well the feeling is very rewarding.  Loekie's work is challenging with familiar feels to it.  He goes in directions I did not see coming and challenges the reader.   Leah, well she has a world so unlike role playing that she goes in a new direction, and one I approve of.  Zuri, (I wish she would hurry and post some more), is very graphic and imaginative, so far her world seems dark and complex.  Me, I write what I call easy reading, but the plot is complex and interwoven with many sub plots.  Mostly character driven, but with enough action to keep the commercial readers happy.   Bill, he too is different, not your typical medievil story line;  more a modern day satire of current events with a zen like twist.  (Winks to Bill.)   So you can see, lots of differences here, but what you will find, is that each writer has created a full world on their own.  Away from the gaming industry.  

 

Hell, the way I look at it, if they like my work, they can contact me about a RPG follow up and write me a big check.  (Gives Loekie a high five.)

 

Nick. 

For me, fiction that's worthwhile comes from the characters.  They have to be real people, not representatives of classes and races and so on.  The stories they get involved in can involve battles, quests, voyages, etc. -- or not.  I won't be much interested in the story, whatever it is, unless I feel the characters are real people I can care about -- either love or hate or both at once.  I know I won't remember much about it if the characters don't remain alive for me after the story is over.

I think the reason characters take prime importance is that all stories (even the stories of our lives) develop because of decisions made and actions taken by people.  We aren't pawns being moved about a cosmic chessboard (even if sometimes it feels like it.)

If role-playing really helps develop characters, I can see its utitility -- but if all it does is flesh out superficial attributes, then it's not real development. Development happens in interaction with other characters in the confines of a situation.

Let's take Bilbo Baggins.  Solid citizen of the Shire, pleasant enough fellow, but cowardly and boring.  He's thrust into a situation -- a quest with a group of gold-loving dwarves -- and immediately he begins to develop into someone interesting -- crafty, spunky, still a little cowardly, but gradually less so -- and ultimately highly ethical and loyal.  And he really comes alive in the process.

I know lots of popular fiction (in and outside fantasy) pretty much ignores character in favor of a string or web of plot-events.  I can't imagine why people even read it.  It might have the satisfaction of a good chess-game, but no real human and psychic significance.

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Sounds of resounding cheers, hand clapping and foot stomping from a snowy Montreal. That is what hurt the Wheel of Time series, I feel. Jordan was more interesting the chess game. The characters were just pieces being moved about the board. Which is the same complaint I have for most roleplaying based books. They focus on the environment and "rules" of the realm they write in. The characters become cookie-cutter, paper thin constructs to drive the plot forward.

For me, I have done an inordinate amount of research to build my world. I want a world that feels real. But all that work is worthless if the reader does not connect with my characters. I want the reader to scream in anger and pain when some of the characters die. I want them to feel the pain when love is rejected. I want to invoke a laugh when the character does something really stupid. Shake their head going "what where they thinking?"

I think this is why Leah started this diverse group. There are writers out there who know storytelling is not the mechanics of the plot-events. We want the readers to come into our world and when they get to the last page they don't want to leave. The reason is not because of the plot-events, it is because they have been touched by the characters that they journeyed with to the end.

Be LotR, Harry Potter, to name two, when I reached the end, I was depressed. My adventures with Sam (my fav), Gimli, Ron, Neville (another fav), etc. came to an end. I can re-experience their trials but their stories are done. I will not be able to continue being part of their adventures. That, for me, is the mark of a good book, series, movie, campaign. It comes to an end, there is a moment of confusion and then the realization it is over. You want more but it is time to move on.

That is what I want for Tangled Threads. People remembering the characters and scenes. When a character is mentioned, there is wistful smile or laugh. If I achieve that, I know I have done what I wanted from the onset.

As I leave, I will use a personal experience. One of my short stories, The Sacrifice, is in the same world yet years later. More than one person told me that they had tears in their eyes by the end of the story. That was not because of the plot-events but the characters. As a writer, I could not ask for a better review.

I played marathon AD&D back in the day, did a little DMing, and wrote a story based on the three characters I ran (yes, all at the same time; a fighter, a thief, and a magic user), and then tossed that story in the bottom of my fighter's folder. It's probably still there.



When I was writing the first big conflict between my MC Lee and the bad guy in SWOtRC, I couldn't think of an outcome that felt right. So I set it up as a mel�e round and rolled it out, hoping my MCs would make it. The results were nothing I would have come up with on my own so I used them. After that, any time I wanted a random result, I rolled the dice. Sometime I used the results as the dice fell, and sometimes it inspired something that I went with instead. In this way, I rolled an MC in SNR into a dandy corner and the story sat until I could get him out, but I did eventually.



My jar of dice--some of which are 30 years old--sit next to my monitor, with in easy reach.

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Exactly! This is also want I want for my work - for readers to have such a connection and understanding of the characters they feel that their stories are a significant experience. There are few books that do this.

I had to jump on that and comment but generally I don't have much role-playing experience. I did once play a forum based game that had a very good but complex backstory, but I couldn't handle when the mod would make my player do something completely random and out of character just to hurry along the game. Not for me lol.

Bump, for Idyllwyld

With the bump from Leah, I am going to draw the thread back to the original reason I posted it. What is the influence of roleplaying on the writer's creativity and storytelling?

I've noticed, by some posts, and comments from the new members of the Wood, there are quite a few people here that are involved in different aspects of gaming, be it direct face-to-face or online. And that is great for the game and interaction between the different players.

Yet for me, being the old fart I am, I see all too often that the environment players or GMs are in become the basis of the stories they write. It gives them a known foundation and a comfort zone. And for me, can make the writer lazy. (Let the barbs fly).

Nick and I are old school. We were playing before quite a few here were in diapers. We both were drawn by the lure of the roleplaying world we were in. Until the mid 90's Re could be considered just another Forgotten Realm the way my players were playing it.

Yet I paused and looked at the creation that was before me. I could see the elements that were mine but it was barnacled by AD&D so it did not come off as something original. So I, as Nick will attest, had to work because time was needed to strip my work and make it mine.

Stories that last are original, as best they can be. For me the critical point is being influenced not being derivative. Tolkien drew on old mythology yet created his own world. Same as Donaldson with the Covenant series.

Be it here or on Urbis, I see way too many stories written by people that are in the roleplaying world. That is fine if that is the audience they want to capture. But I do not know the nuances of WoW or other games so I find these stories don't pull me in, they don't grab me. They are written already expecting the reader has extra knowledge which most readers do not have.

Thus the reason I started this thread and would like to hear from the new members. Personally, I feel you have to step away from the roleplaying you are involved in to tell a story that will entrance the readers out there. Let your voice come through, not a pre-constructed world dictating the rules and regulations.

I might add that I am still stripping the layers of deeply embeded RP from my work.   I still use familiar creature, but these creatures are also found in basic greek, norse,  egyptian and other culters mythology.  They are not exclusive to PR or Tolkien.  

 

My world is a seeded planet and thus the gods as they are called took races from many worlds.  But I was careful of how these different races co-exist, and how much techonology I allow, or even how the magic is used.  My world stays in a medievil time frame and for a reason.    

 

Like Tolkien and Donaldson, I want my world to feel familiar, but for the readers to see my story is not run of the mill RP adventures.  If I wanted to do that, I would copy Wakeman and Hicks.   While I loved Tolkien, I think Donaldson created deeper character, and more of them, all built  around the central storyline, with lots of twist and turns.   While it has been said his orginal triology is a knock off of Tolkien, he brought new ideas, and a whole new world that was not typical RP fantasy adventure.   Though alot of DM's were quick to incorporate some of his characters, creatures and world. 

 

Now with that said, and with Loekie's and many others comments about character building/connecting, I will add this.    The greatest plot will never be remembered without great characters.   But great character need a great plot and a great world to interact within.    Lets face it, there really are not that many new plots.   Its all about how you weave your story differently that what is already out there and been done to death.

 

I just recently got a private message from a fan on my scene where Nathin makes love to Ryzza the night before the last major battle.   The reviewer noted that was the best scene he has read in fantasy fiction and he approves of the sex in fantasy fiction aspect.   God I hope he was not some 15 year old that then had to go take a shower.    

 

And as some of the old times of the group know from previous discussions, I will have a main character that will be gay.   So what does this have to do with RP and influences.   Lets just say that I am ramping up the stakes of FF.   Religion, politics, love, hate, good, evil, different cultures, - add it all, just like in real life.   Readers will see a difference and be intrigued more so than the standard fair.   The problem I have...is do I see a difference in my work or do I just imagine I do?   Something to think on, and why I keep working at it.

 

Nick.