The Wood Beyond The World Forum World Building: Politics

I am going to restart some of the older threads on world building focused on religion, sexuality, etc. in time since we have new members that might want to contribute. But today I want to start a new thread on politics.

We are all building our own worlds. Even stories placed in the near (or far) future, one has to consider politics.

For me, politics is an important thread for Tangled Threads. There is a push to replace the current "monarchy" with a republic. Thus for me, the political element is important to research and develop.

For others, it may be more subtle. It may not directly impinge on the story and the characters, but it, in my opinion, still is an important detail to flesh out. We want to develop a rich environment for our readers to curl up in and become part of. Even in non-election years, for us who live in pseudo-democracies, what happens in government affects us. And colors our conversations and discussions over coffee or beer.

In Tangled Threads, my focus has been varied. Much of the current system is based on the Roman system with a "Caesar" and a Senate. So I have read various books from Julius Caesar, Livy, Plutarch and Justinian. But since my story is based on Celtic and Amerindian influences, I've throw in aspects like the Brehon.

For republican views and details I've turned to the fascinating writings from the United States founding fathers. Be it the sheer brilliance of the initial documents that founded the States to writings from people James Madison (like The Federalist Papers which he contributed to) have given me meat to use and think about. At the same time, it saddens me to see how many of the vaulted ideas have become subverted by narrow-minded special interest groups. But that is another discussion. :-)

So, what are your influences? As you are building your world, what are you drawing from?

Loekie,  you just had to know I could not resist one of your threads.   And I agree, this will give many of our new members some insight as well as the ability to share and help others perhaps see something they had not thought upon.  Instead of my usual long winded and ill conceived replies, I will ask questions.

 

World building...

 

1...Do you plot everything first, (on paper or in head), before starting and stick to the laws you create for your world?   Or, do you have a basic idea and wing your world building as the story progresses?  The reason I ask, is that in a single story, this may work well.  But with a series, as you delve into the other books and stories, I have found that the rigidness I held to in the first limited my abilities in the others to take readers beyond what the first only started.  More often than not, I go back and revise previous stories so they still confirm to the overall world.

 

2...In ploting your world, is it important to show the readers all the laws that govern your world?  IE...Magic, is it important that the reader  understands ever Jordan like explanation, or do you show the basic laws, (say telepathy or magic artifacts) and then allow the reader to fill in the blanks on how this works.  The same could be asked for Religion.  Does the reader need to know the inner workings of the religious order (ie, Pope  all the way down to alterboy), or do you just show what is needed about the religion and allow the reader to fill in the blanks?

 

Politics...

 

1...We have discussed this before with a variety of opinions.  And I will say that politics will depend on if you are writing a literary plot or a commercial plot.  (If new members are interested in the differences, I believe we have a thread on this subject.)  But I want to get away from the raw politics that most think on.

2...There are many kinds of politics...

2A...The politics of Governance,

2B...The politics of religion,

2C...The politics of marriage,

2D...The politics of the sex's (male vs female),

2E...The politics of romance,

2F...The politics of sex,

2G...The politics of race,

2H...The politics of commerce,

2I...The politics of nature,

2J...The politics of self,

 

You can add almost anything to the list and make it political, because there are many forms of politics and one may or may not coincide with another.  But how deeply to you delve into any or all of the politics, or are you selective.  I mean, showing a story where the main political plot is goverance, (in what ever form), should have more woven and shown.   But do you ignore the others at the peril of the over all story.  Or...are they all intertwined.  Or...just based on the overall plot?

Any thoughts?

Nick.  

Politics -- my element.

Everything in my stories revolves around politics, religion, and sex, co-mingled.  How can I go wrong?

Politics and religion are both officially shaped by Alidorism, a body of teaching inspired by divine revelation and rational syncretism.  The prophet Alidor claimed to receive visions and locutions from the Creator that inspired him to develop a system using mind-powers to foster tolerance and peaceful co-existence between individuals, communities, and nations.  Alidor sought out the common ethical elements in every culture he encountered in his travels in his native Albrahar and neighboring Ravella, and wove them into one moral code.  The telepathic ability of most of his world's people was intended by the Creator as a tool for cooperation, according to his teaching, illustrated by the folktales of various peoples in various locales.  Alidor himself committed none of his teaching to paper, but his followers in Ravella did, collecting it in The Wisdom of Alidor. In this formalized state the principles of Alidorism were carried by Ravellan merchants beyond the Great Sea to the Xanthian Empire. The Empire already had its own complex bureaucracy, founded on a concept of divinely dictated natural law, to maintain civil order, and its bureaucrats found Alidorism useful as an over-arching philosophy that could incorporate the more disparate elements in the diverse cultures they were required to rule.  Alidorism also migrated north into Vaaseli, via the Ravellan provinces in the southern ranges of the Mynath, but was much slower to be accepted by the feudal barons who held sway there. Meanwhile in Albrahar the emphasis in Alidorism remained mostly on the spiritual, seeking closer personal and social communion with the will of the Creator through the use of mind-powers. Through the influence mostly of the poltically practical Ravellan Alidorans, Alidorism became the foundation of the peace-keeping Alliance of the four primary nations.

I'm using the intellectual and political history of world religions like Christianity and Islam, the socio-ethical principles of Confucian and Taoist teaching, and our modern Western political tradition since the Enlightenment to shape social development in my fantasy world.  The political model in Vaaseli is a kind of pagan feudalism, rather than a Christian one, where might makes right, rather than divine sanction. By the time of my stories, Alidorans in Vaaseli have managed to modify that principle into reason makes right, at least superficially, putting an end to ceaseless warfare for the crown with the election of one noble house to found a dynasty to rule over all the others. After two hundred years of rule by the house of Haarno some of the nobility are still dissatisfied with the arrangement.  These houses never fully accepted Alidorism, but clung to older power-generating pagan traditions, and hope to restore the entire nation to the older ways.  They're known as traditionalists. Progressives in the kingdom found their wealth and influence grew under Alidoran principles, and they seek to extend them further, to establish a republican form of government like that practiced in the Ravellan League.

There are other religious and political currents in the form of more "primitive" societies like the Telmi, some of the Albraharan tribes, and societies in the largely unexplored regions south of the Xanthian Empire.  There Alidorism has not yet penetrated, and animist religions are still practiced by people who live in close harmony with their natural environment (including psychic as well as physical harmony.)  Their ways of life are going to come under assault by the pressures of budding capitalism at work in Ravellan and Vaaselian society.

Much of my new novel is an explanation of Vaaslian traditionalist motives, as they're manifested in Valmur Karoli and his allies. It's the largely unexpressed subtext of True Minds, which focuses more on a sexual-spiritual theme and the plain old plotty plot of the Vaaselian power struggle and how it influences the Alliance as a whole.

Well, that should be enough to go on with, eh? 

I have always believed that politics is an element that has shaped our lives. It can be subtle, or in a massive way. The Revolution was brought by political opinion.

In my book, politics won't be a focus. But there are three factions mentioned, and three of my characters are a member of each one. The Manipulators of Morte are the ruling class of the city-state Mortegama. I got the idea from the Red Wizards of Thay - clearly pretty evil people. But the Manipulators aren't like that. They just believe power is the most important thing. They will do good, if they can get something out of that.

The Church of Silver are the Manipulators' main rival, as well as complete opposite. They are not affiliated god wise, but rather belive you should do good because it is the right thing to do. They are a militarial organization. Many adventurers from the history of Tharune have originated from the Church, or were at least affiliated with it.

Two totally philosphical and political opinions. The Church has no city base - they just have a fortress. The Manipulators do. Sure, the Church has to worry about polotics, but not to the extent the Manipulators do.

The third faction is the Crusade. It was started by a now long forgotten hero thousands of years ago to take down the God of Corruption. The hero has long since died, but the Crusade hasn't. Their ranks are made up of practically every race. They are united only by one ideal: the death of this God. Some of them don't even know why they are fighting this God's warriors anymore.

The Church is allied with the Crusade, whereas the Manipulators are indiffirent.

Nick:

All the potential complexities you note are the reason I'm following real-world models -- I only alter them where I figure the mind-powers of the population would have a special effect.

Our world religions only deal with what we're capable of -- the world religion of Alidorism has all that to contend with, plus telepathic, telekinetic, clairavoyant, etc. abilties.  Similarly other systems, of economics, politics, family structure (including sexuality), have to cope with those abilties -- as well as their own inter-relationships. Anyone can look at cultural history (books like Dawn to Decadence, or Guns, Germs, and Steel -- or take a decent Western Civ. course) and figure out how to sketch the big picture, then add in the fantasy elements.

For the most part the characters themselves dictate how to deal with these complexities in the stories. Mathis has his legalistic, rationalistic, atheistic attitude, his father has his capitalistic and nationalistic point of view, Timu's influenced by his largely emotional responses, Wythe feels the call of ancient, animist traditions, Prince Renhold's torn between science and respect for non-scientific world-views, etc. Each character can illuminate a different aspect of the living, changing political structure.

Anyway, I'm not trying to teach any lessons, or propose a utopia, but just examine how people respond to political and social pressures.  The figuring it out is up to the characters, and I have to decide how best to portray their struggles.  There aren't any answers, only fruitful (I hope) questions.

Leah,

 

No, you are not preaching.   I understand where you are coming from and you opened my eyes in taking my story a little deeper, if only to show the reader the larger story that looms on my world other than the plot. 

 

I saw many of the points I noted in your work, and I did not find your work boring at all as you presented it.  As a matter of fact, you know I was reading ahead of you at times and pretty close to where you were heading.  How is that?  Am I just a skilled reader, or perhaps, did your writing lead me as was your intent?   The latter I think.

 

I just presented the listings of different types of politics to help show that world building is not limited to the politics of governance of a ruling class.  Characters drive the story, no matter the plot, and only by exploring all the different "politics" does the writer engage the reader beyond the typical commercial plot driven fiction.  

 

But what I am trying to strive for is happy medium between the literary and commercial plot driven story.   I got the commercial down fairly well with the pace and action, and I am working on ramping up all the other character driven "politic's" to take my story to the next level and hopefully  attracting more than just the commercial readers.

 

You did well milady...

the Grasshopper.  

I've got to add a simple principle, that's clear if you do read any cultural history:  politics and political forms arise out of how people are obliged to make a living.  If they rely on the tending of domestic animals that require large areas for grazing, they'll have certain forms of social organization.  If they're settled agriculturalists, that'll influence their political and social structure.  Coastal fisherman have slightly different needs than ocean-ranging fishermen. (The fishing of the Great Banks for cod changed a myriad of things about European society post-Renaissance -- see the little book Cod for the full story.) When international trade develops that dictates new forms. Sci-fi can certainly milk what extra-terrestrial travel will do to our human organizations. Really, any sort of change in human knowledge adds a new wrinkle, but it always goes back to our essential needs for food, shelter, pleasure. (What Timu's musing about before he gets sucked into the nitty-gritty of politics, in the first chapter of OTM.) (Excerpt available for download and review at Amazon.com -- official ABNA entrant: shameless plug.))

A lot of fantasy follows a simplistic, never-never formula of Good King benevolently ruling over happy, hard-working populace (almost always pre-industrial) attacked by evil, likely wizardous would-be world ruler.  Well, Tolkien started it -- except his King was in exile, and the lesser rulers in place were kind of at a loss as to how to deal with the Great Evil -- in a state of denial, actually.  Probably the worst thing about Tolkien was his simplistic political vision -- he was a medievalist dreamer, of the same stripe as the pre-Raphaelites like William Morris (father of the SCA, in a way.)  There is something appealing in his anti-industrialism, particularly in this day of global-warming and recognition of the need for sustainability.  But it doesn't have a lot to do with realistic political, economic, and social complexity.

(That was one thing I liked about the first trilogy by David B. Coe, the Lon-Tobyn Chronicles, that I read this summer (after meeting him at a con.) A much more realistic portrayal of the conflict between techies and tree-huggers.Both sides had some similar extra-human abilties, though in the techie-culture they were despised and submerged, and the tree-hugger culture got a hankering for technology once they were exposed to it, and began to be suspicious of the folks with the special powers.)

Anyway, Nick, what I see in your work is the basic impulse to do the right thing coming into conflict with the equally basic impulse to do what's profitable for just one person or one faction.  You have the additional complication of your protagonist not knowing exactly why he should do the right thing, since he doesn't believe in any god.  He has to figure it out for himself, which is damned difficult. Is that a fair assessment?

As to your milieu, it's varied as far as cultures are concerned, but the way I see it they're all at about the same stage, much as mine are -- early Renaissance, when various cultures are learning to get along with each other after being a bit isolated.  They want to share their good stuff with each other, but at the same time they're wary, and the power-grabbing bad guys take advantage of that atmosphere of suspiscion.  Again, tell me if I'm getting this wrong, reading too much into it, or just plain being stupid.

Leah,

 

You pretty much pegged my story for where its at.  Nathin does not believe in much except his own abilities and the goodness in other people.   He accepts the beliefs of others, like the Priestess Snow, but he is skeptical of those beliefs.   The whole first book is a journey not so much about the Prophecy, as much as it is about Nathin discovering what he believes in.  My world is very much pre-industrial, as the Guardians had planned on keeping it, though Prynthia is a bit more advanced than the other kingdoms because they have Thothguard.  Of course, this is all about to explode when Torroc awakens at the end of Book 2.

 

Nick.

 

 

Politics ah, interesting.

The Skare is much like a gaia spirit, however, there are no gods in my world. There are creating philosophies in my Mythology there is this constant of energy, the idea that energy is neither destroy or created. This is the Eternal Fount, representing the every changing movement of energy accross the cosmos.

There are two god like figures, more like agian philosophies. There was Death and Life, the two that created and removed.

Now I have only fleshed out one singular continent partially of my world. But here we go.

The Grand Empire of Grace...

Spreading from the far northern steppes of western Njarna, to the south of the rocky highlands of the Yonzai Home. The Empire has existed for eight hundred years. Within the Empire there stands the 26 Imperial clans. Distaff and Pure bloodlines that are direct descendents of the second child of Valkirian and his only legiminate heir. The right of inheritance is decided upon by the Kir'sa, the leader of the Cult of Purity.

The people of the Empire the three ethnic groups of the Gena, the Hanii and the Yonzai have varying beliefs. But it is among the Noble Clans, the ruling elite that Purity, particularlry the Hanii, is what governs life. They believe in many ways that the Thule Society did, in a pure race of the Laerin. More specifically in the divine aspects of the line of Valkirian. And it is thus the right and the decision of the Kirin'Sorin, Cult of Purity, to judge and chose the next Empress or Emperor.

Clans are constantly in a state of war and it is not unlike the Empire to see small or massive bloodied fields where two rival families have fought. The Laerin though being the Gracekind are highly competetive and the clans are constantly vying for higher position and other reason. In the South, the Yonzai have united partially under a set of powerful reigning clan chiefs that want independence for the Yonzai people from the greater Empire. In response the Imperial Guard, the personal legion of the Imperial Clans under direction of the Kir'sa has conducted a racial cleansing program and relocation of Hanii homesteaders to the south.

The Duchy of Kalas

The Duchy is what remains besides Njarna, of the ancient northern Kingdom of Njor. The term Njor means north in Quan'sha, as does the responding Sor means south. The two Kingdoms were created as a result of varying political and religious beliefs. The Duchy is basically one of the former provinces of Njor. A Duke being a Lord Paramount or ruling peer that controls an entire province, so a Ducal House is a very powerful family. In response each duke would have then the Baron Houses, or those below them that serve and give fealty to the Duke.

The Duchy is spread through varying lands and each village has its own superstitions and beliefs. Many of which beliefs surround the animist beliefs of Death and Life, and the Duchy has retains a high amount of Knowledge of Runes. Most likley because its high amount of Foci.

The Five Baronies of Gelir

Once a province of Sor, the Baron House overthrew their Ducal House and created a parliamentary meeting system. The Five Baronies has fallen under hard times because of the death of three House Heirs and leaders, and the exiling of the remaing houses. It is currently ruled by the former Baron House of Mordan, a rogue clan of Nobles that fled persecution under Kalasii law.