The Review Club Forum Discussion of Julie Dope.Sick...

This is the place to respond to reviews and for futher discussion on Julie's Dope.Sick.Love.

Hi Bill:

Thanks for the review. I appreciate the small edits and suggestions. They are helpful.

Julie

Leah:

Thanks for the review and for your comments. While I appreciate them, I think that we come from two very different school of writing style in terms of details and characterization. You write from a fantasy related genre and mine is more hard-boiled mystery/suspense. While neither is better, personal taste is the overall defining factor.

In fantasy, the world is described and created in detail. Long dragging sentence of a birds in flight, or what the color of a river appears on a sunny morning. Well, in my world, Colin's world. All that is known, and if not known, it is provided by short descriptions of squalor. If you do not connect with Colin that's fine. I don't expect everyone to do so, but in turn, you must accept that others have a much different perceptive on the character. In fact, this novel based upon the provided chapters is a winner of the Paul Gillette Memorial writers contest (The Pikes Peak Writers). The feedback I have received suggests the character-driven scope of the novel is what the judges love. I am not mentioning this to dismiss your viewpoint, only to acknowledge the subjectivity of genre based reviewing.

Quote:


The strong suit of this novel is the characterization of Colin. Ask those that have read the entire story...cc, Gabe, Loekie, & Kim. I'm in no way discounting what you have said, but I really do feel like it comes down to who my character is rather than as you put it thinking like my character is. This is Colin. It is his voice, not mine. He isn't a sensitive songwriter, nor a poet. The distance is part of the characterization, part of the effect. He is purposely detached.

Again, I appreciate your comments. Some of the editing for sentence structure was helpful, so thanks. But overall, I'm going to have to chalk this one up to different style and taste, rather than try to make Colin into someone he is not. Forcing me onto who I think a character should be is never a good option.

Thanks,

Julie

I accept your judgement. I just didn't feel Colin as a musician and songwriter. I felt that what characterization there was in that regard was applied to provide setting for plot.

It may be a stylistic difference, but I don't think it's a fantasy vs. realism thing, really. I expect any fiction I read to have detail that makes it immediately realistic. Not long descriptive passages, but little things that obviously say "it is this way and no other, because this is the truth." That's what the tattoo passage (among others I was too plumb lazy to mention) did. The passage of reflection on how hard it was to be a musician didn't do that.

I guess I'm in the minority though.

Leah:

Thanks for that. I truly believe it is all about style and maybe a bit about who we want our charcaters to be. I'll take another look at the musican section.

Thanks,

Julie

Just gotta butt in a little... From what I know I think that Colin was a poet/musician and now is a scarred human being and that is where his writing is coming from. If you are disfunctional like Colin nothing is nearly as poetic as the truth.

I realize that everyone is going to see and feel a character differently, as characteriation is something I feel I'm good at seeing or not seeing in a story. But I gotta say, Colin is the only character in a story that I thought of when I heard a song on the radio. Not hey that song reminds me of julies character but hey that song reminds me of Colin... Oh wait he doesn't really exist!!!!

So in my book Colin is one of the most unbalievably complete characters I've ever read in any type of writting. So props julie I think I will never read a better developed character.

Gabe

He doesn't seem to really think about music much, is all I'm saying. My husband's a musician, and he thinks about it all the time, even when he's beset with all manner of serious problems (which he is.) It's the way he functions. Every other musician I've ever known, especially the professionals, is the same way.

I think characterization is just as important in fantasy as in "realism", by the way. My greatest interest in my own work is to make the characters as real to readers as they are to me. The fantasy setting is just an excuse to tackle big issues in a new way, that won't get them laughed off the page. A lot of realism is either entirely plot driven or completely cynical. It's a lot easier to be idealistic in fantasy. (I think that's why so many "serious" writers have been influenced by "magical realism.") But even though ideas and idealism are important to me, I don't hit people over the head with them. My characters can be as cynical (or as naive) as hell, and they're the ones who move the story -- not me.

Just thinking -- if Colin's going through a painful dry spell as a musician because of his other problems, then a lot more could be made of that. I really think that would be extremely significant for him. That's just my experience.

Okay as the former owner of a record label and a muscian and a friend of dozens of very, VERY talented people, the ones that are that talented don't live their lives focused on music, but instead living their lives which drive their music.

I don't know how much anyone who hasn't been addicted to dope understands the addiction. But (and I don't say this lightly) coming from someone who has been down that path Colin is spot on. I am not trying to insult anyone here, but I have never read a more realistic character than colin... including in this group. While everyone has their strengths in this group, or they wouldn't have been invited, Julie's is her characters.

Some people only think about music, well then their story would be the same as everyone elses so it wouldn't be very entertaining. A characters realism comes from their flaws their differnces from the norms. But those differences need to be balievable within the scope of how people truely act. And Julie based on my reading you are right on track even if other people aren't.

Julie there are things that I have talked to you about in the past and will continue to talk to you about regarding DSL, but I would not change colin for anything in the world... he really makes your story.

Quote:


Thanks Gabe. I respect your opinion and hope to hear more thoughts. As for musicians, you have a greater understanding for Colin's place in the industry and I cannot thank you enough for all the helpful hints about it that make the story more than just a murder mystery.

Listen that might have come out a little differently than I ment it. Characters in any story is what makes a truely great story. I don't think anyone writes a story without a little bit of themselves in every character. With that being said, it is important for the writer to understand that a character will not be accepted by a reader if there is not believability. If you are writing for a minority then you can almost be sure to never see a publisher's acceptance letter as character need to apeal to the majority as the story should.

Colin is believable because if he only focused on his music he would fail as a recovering addict as he did in the past. If he only focused on his recovery he would fail as a musician because he wouldn't have much time for anything else. Julie has done a great balancing act with colins world. If colin had just started his recovery it would be important for him and the story to focus on that, but it has been a bit. Colin also doesn't know if he will be a musician again so to throw everything away and chase that with everything would be a far reach as well.

As a person who has and continues to study psychology, colin fits into that limbo f a recovering addict that is attempting to put his life together without the resolution to his wifes death. Nothing, in either direction is ever clear at this point. As a recovering addict myself I know a lot about this grey area and how hard it is to shed the recovery title and begin the living breathing person title.

Because colin isn't my character, (although I wish he was) I can give a readers point of view coming from a person who has lived parts of colins life. I'd have to again that colin is an accurate character save for some of his whinny-ness. ;) I hope that everyone can be nade to see it the way I see it.

Dear Julie,

I take it the prologue was about Colin, though i still cannot be sure. Should I be certain of this simply because this is first person, and I should assume the first person is the same person in the prologue as continues after the prologue? I ask because I seldom read first person. If the voice choice is not alone enough to make a knowledgeable reader understand who the "I" in the prologue is, then is it your purpose to make us figure this out? I doubt this could be a plant for a future character. But the prologue character could even be an OD that is going to wind up putting Colin or another character in legal jeapardy in time. It did seem to be an OD to me at the time I read it.

Thanks,

Bill

Quote:


Bill:

Yes the prologue is about Colin and it ties into the story in a few chapters. But you make a good point about doing so earlier on. It is two years before chapter 1, and is the exodus of his quitting heroin.

Thanks,

Julie

Joe:

Thank you very much for the review. For someone who claims he wouldn't find anything.... ::biggrin:: Nice. Lots of good edits and points. I am always worried about Colin's nobility playing real and you bring up a good point. Most people I hang with would feel the same way, but in Colin's defense, he is avoiding living any sort of life. He is in hiding from everything...

I know that there isn't the standard mystery elements right off, but trust me they do come. I wanted both a character driven and plot driving novel. whether that works will remain to be seen.

Thanks for the review and the notes.

Julie

Mike:

Thanks for the review and the nice words. I do hope that you liked it, and you did give me something to think about as far as conflict. I hope that as the story builds that part of internal conflict grows as well.

Thanks,

Julie