The Review Club Forum Dialog between the sexes/ Pyra..

I was talking to my mother over the phone earlier. Telling her about an upcoming promotion I may be getting. My boss is a woman and my mother asked me what I had said to her when she gave me the news. I told her and she said, "Nope you did it all wrong. That's not how you speak to a woman that you need to get something from." I asked why, more or less she decided to inform me why, and she started off by saying "Have you noticed a woman never says anything in just two sentences." That got me thinking, not about my boss, but about writing credible dialog.

I started to come up with a theme in my head for writing from a female point of view and a male�s. Maybe it isn't what is said but how it�s said. I thought of a pyramid system for women�s speech and a tower system for men, where the goal of both is to get to the top or point.

I was wondering if perhaps women discuses things like a pyramids. Where they lay down a lot of bricks (facts and back story) at the bottom and work there way up in a more suspenseful/graceful way to get to the sharp point at the top.

And then a males. He would talk in a more linear fashion, just stating what he needs to so he can get his bold tower built. The bigger the blocks(less words/sentences) the better. Alla bout getting that exclamation point up.

Now granted both are a little bit of an extreme and do not represent the whole of the sexes. But I do think there is some truth to it.

Dialog is one of my weakest points. Are there any philosophies you incorporate to make your dialog more real? Any tips? Do you have any generalizations when it comes to getting into opposite sexes minds?

Pyramids vs. Tower, B.S. or The S.?

What a loaded topic Anthony!

Feminist (and not) linguistics experts, psychologists, and sociologists have been arguing that men and women communicate differently forever. The best book from that ilk is probably Deborah Tannen's You Just Don't Understand.

I do think there's something to that pyramid versus tower thing. Men have been shown to communication more linearly and be more focused on problem solving or a resolution (which is a lot like climbing a straight tower), whereas women have been shown to focus more on explaining and telling stories (which is a lot like laying the groundwork of a pyramid) and empathizing versus problem solving, which is another important thing to remember about women. They are more likely to be like "I understand" than "Here's how you fix it"... or at least so the gender shrinks say.

As for dialogue, I've found that replaying the lines in my head helps, as does running through the scene in my head before writing. Watching REALLY well-written movies that emphasize dialogue over action is another great way to learn because dialogue is the bulk of what makes a movie script. Even reading scripts if you can find them. Or get a script writing program and try writing the scene as all dialogue first so you don't get narrative brain clutter.

That's all I've got right now. Maybe more later.

-cc

First, congrats on the promotion! You rock.

Okay, now onto the sexist commentary:

Men and women do have social constructed, and well as biological speech difference. Men do tend to be a bit more blunt, and women a bit more wordy (proven by various research studies).

Now, when it comes to dialogue and characters, you need to focus more on the character's traits rather than gender based research. See some characters will be less talkative due to personality, trauma, or other psychological factors. Male or female. What matters is who they are. If you have a grip on that, then you will have a stronger ability to tailor their speech.

I suggest studying personality traits, rather than gender to get a better handle on dialogue.

Anyways, that's my two cents.

Very interesting about the men vs. women in dialogue thing, Anthony, and you're probably right about some of that. Same reason guys can make grunt noises and the other gets it completely. Women I general have wiser than men, so they don't have to say alot but understand the most complex circumstances intuitively. I try to incorporate that.

What I find works for me when I write dialogue is that I see or picture the conversation and block out the narrative, and I just write the dialogue. I sometimes have pages of nothing but dialogue, that looks like a screenplay or just a play, with occasional set direction. I will then come back to it and flesh it out for narrative. That helps me flow the dialogue, which should be interlocking.

Anthony - great topic!

I believe that men and women speak like they shop - and shop like they lived ages ago. Men hunt when they shop. Go in. (follow the tracks)... Locate item. (spot the deer)... Purchase item. (throw the spear)... Get out. (drag dinner to cave)

Direct, no nonsense, and on to something more interesting.

Women gather when they shop. They take in the overall sight before them. Sure, they have three items on their list, but... is something on sale that they may need in the future? They're wired to gather things (like their ancestors did for roots, berries, herbs, wild grains, etc.) so they meander through the aisles to see what is available, taking an hour and 27 minutes to the man's 15 in the same store with the same list.

Speech patterns follow the same hard-wire of the brain. Because I'm female, many times when writing men's dialog, I have to go back and trim about a third to a half of the word count, just to get the right 'feel', the right linear path.


And that's what I think 'bout that. ::tongue::

Sounds like most of you agree or see partial truths and I was thinking more about it. Wondering if perhaps the narrative should follow that theme loosely. Say give more description of surroundings when a female is the main character of that part of the story. Pick out different things based on what different genders would notice. I dunno, I'm just trying out ways to beat the road blocks before they come. In some ways I think maybe if the narrative/story serves the character some later in the story there may be parallels that could be easily made and progress the story more.

Belle that is a great analogy!