The Review Club Forum Setting, Imagery, Description,..

God lord, it's been quiet around here lately.

So let's talk about setting. Nothing in particular, just some general things. How do you decide how much setting to include? What sort of techniques do you use to construct a setting? Philosophy about the purpose of setting (examples: as metaphor, as color)? Sources or ways of deriving imagery?

Feel free to add your own questions, thoughts, and topics, generally related to those in the title here as well.

-cc

This is a hard topic for me as I usually find I only focus on one of the above mentioned items at a time. What I've been trying now is to get to the story out and then go back and work on Imagery, setting, etc.. I guess like making soup where I give a taste and then say oh this is missing and this and what I don't have I'll call the wife and ask her to stop off on her way home and pick it up. Look forward to reading everyone else's thoughts are.

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I love setting. Mostly I tend to write as much setting as I feel I need to invoke a mood or describe a place. As far as techniques, on a micro level I try to use as many real references as possible. I like using colors and metaphors. But only if they invoke a solid substance. (Granted I can't always do this and sometimes I fly off on flights of fancy, but this is what I try to do and what I believe makes better description).

Now on a macro level. I think setting is almost as important (if in not more important) than characters in a story. The setting should interact with the characters, be part of their lives and experiences. (Granted I've been reading a sociology textbook lately so forgive me.) In the end, on a macro level the setting should both be a reflection of the character and the character should reflect the setting.

Granted, there are times when this doesn't hold true. But when you look at long term residents of a community who interact with the community they'll take on the norms of that community or reject those norms. When those communities come into conflict, bang you've got a story. Or when members of those communities come into conflict. That's what I mean about setting reflecting on the character.

But I'd love to hear other peoples thoughts on this? How much thought do you put into a setting before you start writing? Do you consider the setting and if so when in the process of coming up with a story? Do you generally use places you've been (seen) or do you imagine what those places would be like? How much license do you take with real places?

Okay now that I've rambled on. :)

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I put a ton of thought into plotting and some into character, but next to nothing into setting. I always use real places that I know well, whether it's an art gallery, a plot of land in the middle of nowhere, or a Seattle coffee shop that sells more than just coffee out of the back room. These are all places I have been to time and again. I don't know if I could even write anything that takes place somewhere I have never frequented. And, I honestly don't know why that is, so this thread really gets me thinking.

As for how much license do I take with real places - not much. I even use the real names more often than not, or change them just a little. I used to run an art gallery called Secluded Alley Works. My grandma owned a little diner named JJ's Gateway Cafe, which evolved into Rosie's Gateway Cafe in my novels, though the interior of the cafe and what goes on there is based on a place here in Seattle.

My favorite thing in the world is to discover the metaphors and imagery and symbols that inherently exist in the settings I already know. I just kinda let my subconscious take over for awhile, then I notice patterns in what I am writing. One example would be this clock in the coffee shop I frequent. I'm not sure I ever really noticed it there, but it kept appearing in my writing. So, once I became aware of it, I become more conscious of how I bring it up, how it is described depending on what is going on in the scene. I would use the find function in my word processor and every time the word clock appeared, I'd add a little something to the tone of the description to match the mood of the scene.

I guess that is why I don't put much of thought into setting, because I love the thrill of discovering more and more about the settings I already visit. I am so curious how the rest of you all go about this. Excellent food for thought here. Thanks.

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Just kind of a curiousity question here. How does using real settings affect your stuff? Do you find yourself needing to be faithful to original? Or do you just use them because they're comfortable and familiar.

I actually have some similiar things in Crimson and Gray. Since Pullman is a real place and I lived there long enough to know the town backwards and forwards, I find myself needing to be faithful to the geography. For example, one of the characters lives on Military Hill (which is about twenty minute walk from the center of campus) and I find myself needing to be faithful to that time frame in the scope of the story.

Okay again enough rambling. :)

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I just use them because they are comfortable and familiar. I don't feel like I have to be totally faithful though. If I really want the morning sun in a window, but the real window faces west, I just flip the place around. My hero's homebase is Seattle's corner of 12th and Pike and I am faithful to three of the four corner businesses there, but by my writer's hand I have demolished a condo building and replaced it with a coffee shop and art gallery. But, like your Military Hill time frame, I do keep geography true to that degree, or I figure I'll get complaints from Seattle readers. I think in some ways I just have laziness of imagination.

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It isn't really laziness of imagination. To be honest I usually take real places when I'm writing shorts but I usually try to fit them to the story I'm telling. I mean there are places in Western Mass. that look like Millersville. Ames, Iowa and Pullman are both real places :) And Seattle cool, so you're all good. I sure do miss Seattle summers.

I guess I have a little different take on setting. I really enjoy writing historical fiction, which means my settings are often a 'done deal'. My T'on Ma series is set in the high plains of Texas, with actual raids, forts, etc. in place. So I do a LOT of research.

However, on places I invent, I get a very clear picture of the main setting. In "Tascosa" (soon to be released, I hope), that's a dining hall. I've got software that allows me to draw blue prints, so I've actually created the diner. In "Lady Gwendolyn", I have the Dewar castle drawn to scale. That way, when I have characters traipsing through the dark halls at night, I keep the description accurate.

How much do I actually describe in the book, though, is another matter. I want to give enough detail so that the reader has a feel for the place, but want to leave enough out so that they can create their own world, too.

Have you ever had a favorite book that got turned into a movie. The first time you see it, you say, "That's not how it looks!" because it doesn't match your own imagination? I've done that too often to mention. ::tongue::

I'm of the school that setting is all metaphor and theme, so it's to add to the narrative, character and plot, but holds no place outside that. When I set a scene, it may start off as just a place (like a set direction for stage), and then I look to lighting, mood, and colour. A tree thrown on the stage better damn well have a purpose or it goes. A sunrise must mean a beginning. A sunset must mean an ending. Red must be passion. Blue must be sad. All of these things are necessary elements going to theme. Ironic since I overuse imagery! ;-)

I tend to be with Rob here. Other than setting a place so your reader doesn't feel like they are in a vacuum, additional setting or imagery all has to have a secondary purpose beyond just setting. Characterization, theme, introducing a key physical element for plot, something. Granted, I think there's a little more flexibility with major settings that will recur or provide one of the central backdrops to the story -- sorta on the theory that if you get it out of the way once, you'll never have to do it again and can simply throw in details to remind the reader.

I also think the volume of setting and imagery etc. that a story can bear depends on the genre and kind of story. To use you as an example, Rob, yes, you can sometimes get lost in imagery, but it doesn't happen that often. You write literary and the beautiful language and meaningful description has a definite role in literary fiction. On the other hand, as beautiful as your words can be, they'd probably slow the story down in a commercial thriller. So the way I present setting and description differs depending on what I'm writing. I'll stop with Nine Gifts and take my time to set a scene, pulling out the pieces that speak to character or theme or add a little shine to the story. With my genre writing, I try to filter it in a lot more to action, keep straight description to a paragraph or two (and not page long paragraphs either ::tongue:: ) and use details more carefully.

Just my thoughts.

-cc

CC - if a cold wind blows, your face is gonna freeze that way!

hehehe

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How do you know it hasn't already? ::tongue:: I WAS a bratty kid....

-cc

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Okay, now I'm definitely guilty of using description merely to set a mood. But actually I have a question. Does a sunset have to mean an ending? etc. I'm just curious because I always like playing around with things so that they mean contrary to what they're established as. (Not that I neccesarily do that well, just what I like doing).

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Okay, now I'm definitely guilty of using description merely to set a mood. But actually I have a question. Does a sunset have to mean an ending? etc. I'm just curious because I always like playing around with things so that they mean contrary to what they're established as. (Not that I neccesarily do that well, just what I like doing).[/quote]

Hey Cam, I hear you. Absolutely, in my view you can always play with meaning to reverse it, play with the theme, so long as it's understandable to the reader. It's kind of a code for the reader to attach to what's going on without you having to tell them. That'll make it ironic in setting alone. But of course setting is only one of the tracks of the score, so irony can be carried through one of the other tracks (like character, etc.).

My two cents.

Cheers!

Wasn't it Freud who said, "Sometimes a sunset is just a sunset." And he got quite a few things published.
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Oh wait, nevermind. That was a cigar.

lol. I think Freud said something more along the lines of you really want to kill your father and sleep with your mother, so maybe, published or not, he's not the best resource. ::tongue::