A B N A Vets Forum Outlining a Novel. Does it wo..

Many of us who've written our novels followed various ways to get it started and completed.  One of the questions Kristin B. asked is about outlining.  What is your thinking about this.  Does it help or hinder creativity?

I outlined because I knew a very basic, xyz-happens plot would be difficult for me to do - I'm terrible at being explicit.  In the end though, I wish I'd just let it rip and then gone back and restructured it.   I ended up having gobs of subplots and themes and character-as-plot aspects, but the basic story is still too vague and abstract. 

I think outlining is good for certain genres.  For example in thrillers where pacing, plot, and scene selection is so important, I think it would be good to outline, because you want to build that thrill to the readers of what would happen next.  Multi POV novels may also benefit from it.  I usually outline after finishing the first draft so I can see what chapters are unnecessary (and I can eliminate them) and what scenes needed to be added.  But different strokes for different folks.

I outline if I feel like it.  I usually write fluffy romances, so while plot is important, it's not complex or convoluted.

For me, outlining takes all the fun out of writing fiction.

First I just write, write, write.  Once I've got the basic story down, I go back later and make it right.

 

 

This topic migrated from another thread, so I just wanted to copy my post from there, here.

I can't bear the thought of outlining. But if I don't have some kind of structure in my head before I get too far I go down too many sidetracks and have to revise too much.  I've learned this the hard way, completing two novels by the "let it grow" method.

So, what I'm working on now I'm planning.  Not outlining.  But I'm working scenes out in my head from throughout the story, jotting down the best bits that come to me, and when I've got enough material I'll decide what's absolutely most important, then weave it all together.  I'm already writing the first draft, but the chapters are coming very slowly for me, as I have one eye on the future development of the story and I'm trying to pre-edit out the unnecessary as I go.

One reason I can't outline is the characters make so many of the narrative decisions -- I can't know exactly what will happen until they interact with each other and the basic situation I've begun with.  That's why I have to play out actual scenes in my head at least to know where the story's going.

I like to know where I am going but I don't outline. With the novel I am currently writing, a YA fantasy, I had the first quarter but no idea what was going to happen after that point. I had to stop, listen to the characters and work out what the ending would be. I now know the end roughly but have no idea how I will get there. I just trust my characters will show me the way. Once I get there then I will go back and tidy up, rewrite, rewrite, rewrite etc. I'll admit it's a slow method but it works for me.

I have tried outlining but my characters rebelled and wouldn't go where I told them to go. It is easier just to do what they want and pull them into line at the end.

Gayna

I don't outline. I have found that once I know the entire story from start to finish, I lose interest in writing it. It's like someone telling the end of a really good movie. What's the point of watching it if you know what's going to happen? I usually know a general idea of the highlights of the story but I let the characters tell me what happened instead of me trying to force my will on them. ;) On occasion, when I get to the end of the book (I've completed 4 so far) I will sketch out (either in my head or on paper) how it will all come together but not at the beginning.



(I've never finished a book that I outlined from the start...)



-Doug

I agree with comments everyone has made. A long time ago I abandoned a novel because it was turning into five novels -- too many interesting characters heading off on their own stories, no cohesive overview. But I also am easily bored and don't like the idea of planning things ahead, and also need to let my characters have room to grow and breathe and act within their own realms of possibility, which I can't predict at the outset. So I need to know where I'm going generally but not specifically. Like Enrico, I do an outline after the first draft to see what I've done and plan the revision.

I wrote my first novel (the abna excerpt) over two years with very little outline, but several drafts and the intention of teaching myself a "formula" of sorts for all of the novels that will appear in this mystery series. Formula in place, I wrote a detailed outline for the second book in the series and I am cruising through the writing process and loving every minute of it. I've deviated very little from the outline and expect this novel to be good to go by draft #2.

I have another series (urban fantasy) in mind though, and at some point I'll be writing without an outline to find my voice and formula for that one. I enjoy both, but I have to admit, the words really flow best for me with the tight outline. Without one, I feel like I am finding my way around a huge cave in the dark with one of those keychain flashlights.

Brent, I'd think an outline would be almost necessary for a mystery.  You'd need a little wiggle room in it, I'm sure, but I can't imagine trying to write an effective mystery without knowing a heckuva lot more about the story than the characters do.

I think that's why those of us who shy away from outlines are the way we are.  We like the fuzzy edges, like the characters to take control once in awhile, at least.

 

I outlined a time-travel sci fi book I wrote 25 years ago.  The problem with THAT mss wasn't the outline but my fledgling writing ability :-)  I have a 20 year old daughter who is a wiz of an illustrator-in-training and we've discussed turning that story, which I still want to do in some format, into a graphic novel.

I did not format "The Called Ones", but I wrote a "time line" because it flashes back to Lowell and Faye's early years - first in high school, then seminary, then early in Indonesia and finally to the "present", which is 1985 in the novel, when the Indonesian government kicked Christian missionaries out of the country.  I had to keep track of how old everyone was supposed to be at various times.  I wrote the rough draft at a gasping gallop - I forget how Stephen King suggested it, but he said something like "just pour your words onto the page".  Then I went back with my "time line" and remembered things like "Lowell can't be in residency yet - he's only 20 in such and such a year..."

If I were writing a thriller/mystery whodunit, I'm sure I'd want it outlined first.

A related question would be: "How do you edit?"  I did my 3 or 4 MAJOR edits start to finish, a chapter at a time.  I read that Vonnegut edited as he wrote and would NOT leave a single page until THAT page was "perfect".  For me that would be a waste of energy because, as Enrico pointed out earlier, sometimes you need to bring in story and, more often, you need to cut story.  My first chapter went from 20 pages to less than 12.  I'd hate to have sweated so long on the 11,000 thousand words I cut.  As King says, it's already hard enough to "kill your darlings".

I wrote a thriller a few years ago and wrote it without an outline until I reached 100 pages and needed to chart my way to the end.  I was afraid the mss was straying too far away from the plot and in a thriller, you can't let that type of thing happen.

lesley,

 

Downtown SF is a good walking city.  The good places to visit are:

 

Walk across the golden gate

Walk through China Town then on to North Beach (which is Italian town)

Golden Gate Park is a terrific place to visit

From the Ferry Bldg, you can also take a ferry to the artist's town of Sausalito

 

Lots of plays and show to see a night.  Check the Sunday Datebook.

 

If you rent a car, try taking a leisurely drive to Sonoma and Napa wine countries, do wine tasting, and eat various cheeses at the wineries.  Farther north is Mendocino (about two plus hours drive from SF)

Two hours south is Santa Cruz (beach town) and a little farther down, Monterrey, Pacific Grove, and Carmel--these are beautiful places, being the old stomping grounds of the famous writer John Steinbeck.

 

E-

 

 

What I usually do  (I have several books started, only one finished)  is to jump right into the book and write until I'm stuck.  I usually know what is going to happen next, but I am not sure of the exact words to write next. 

 

So then I outline.  I start at the beginning and outline to where I am, then I outline through as far as I can. 

 

Then I usually am able to go back and continue writing.

 

Just what I do!

No outlining for me... as soon as I even think about making an outline, I come close to a panic attack. The problem is sometimes I don't know where my story is going to go, and I don't want to limit its options. I usually have a specific beginning and a specific ending; what happens in the middle is a mystery even to me until I start to write. I might have a character say something that seems innocent enough, but it sparks a whole new idea in me and the story then heads in an unexpected direction.