Flame Wars

Usually I don't write stories.  But this is a topic I feel needs to be addressed.  And since I have intimate experience with both sides of the spectrum on this matter I thought I might share my insight from those experience's.

People who incessantly talk s**t about a single individual over a long period of time get a weird, unhealthy satisfaction from it. I'm not talking about a little jab here and there, or a small argument with someone. . . I'm talking about a weeks long campaign specifically dedicated to bringing a single individual down.

 

When a person tries to pull someone down over long periods of time it's usually a sign of cognitive dissonance and extreme insecurity. That person thinks they are pulling the other person down closer to their level and closing an imaginary gap between them, thus making them the "better" person because deep down inside... they feel inferior and lack genuine self esteem.   In reality, there is no gap... it's a thing that person has subconsciously manufactured to make themselves feel more relevant and productive than they actually are without doing any original or imaginative work in reality. Their "achievements" and satisfaction from carrying on with petty hatreds are all in their head, the "purpose" that drives that hatred is all in their head, their entire "reasoning" behind such behavior in general is all in their head.

When was the last time someone objectively better than you at anything focused specifically on you over long periods of time solely for the purpose of "s**t talking", or constantly wrote "hate poems", or incessantly spread lies, stories, tales and exagerations about you? The answer is probably... never. Only weak, insecure, and people who feel guilty about something believe that they need to do this over and over and over again. 

Always remember that internet flame wars are fought with imaginary bullets... they can only hurt you if you let yourself truly believe that any of this s**t is relavent to real life or a productive way to express yourself in any sense of the word.

Reviews

[Chris Shaw]

I left a site precisely for what I see happening here now. I've not been here a year yet and have no understanding of the history that went on before. I don't like vendettas and I don't want to be in a situation where I am being dragged in to stuff I have no understanding of. I have always found you respectful of my views even if you might not agree with them. I am happy to call on your work and intend to continue to do so David.

Chris

[Davidgeo]

Thanks Chris. I appreciate the little friendship we share on this site and appreciate the insightful reviews you leave and the discussions we have. When I mention that I don't leave a lot of public reviews on your work because I attract the wrong kind of attention... that irrational vendetta BS is what I'm talking about.

I really was hoping I could just ignore things and not have to write this post but what I thought was fading away into the background is just getting worse. And not just against me, I wrote that post on behalf of a lot of people that have gone through the same BS from the same handful of people.

My intention is to not write on this topic beyond responding to the reviews and comments under this particular post. Because the more we talk about it the more attention we give to the wrong types of people and the more emboldened and enraged they will become leading to a circle of unproductive non sense that really has nothing to do with creative writing.

Thanks for judging me as you see me and not as how someone else wants you to see me. It's the sign of a strong and independent mind to, no matter what conclusions you come to, come to those conclusions on your own.

[Davidgeo]

Thanks Chris. I appreciate the little friendship we share on this site and appreciate the insightful reviews you leave and the discussions we have. When I mention that I don't leave a lot of public reviews on your work because I attract the wrong kind of attention... that irrational vendetta BS is what I'm talking about.

I really was hoping I could just ignore things and not have to write this post but what I thought was fading away into the background is just getting worse. And not just against me, I wrote that post on behalf of a lot of people that have gone through the same BS from the same handful of people.

My intention is to not write on this topic beyond responding to the reviews and comments under this particular post. Because the more we talk about it the more attention we give to the wrong types of people and the more emboldened and enraged they will become leading to a circle of unproductive non sense that really has nothing to do with creative writing.

Thanks for judging me as you see me and not as how someone else wants you to see me. It's the sign of a strong and independent mind to, no matter what conclusions you come to, come to those conclusions on your own.

[KWP]

the thing is you see, people get caught up on the little things, they get attached, they also misinterpret (which is very easy to do on an online forum) they get offended too easily, they think they are king or queen behind their words ...

I mean seriously man, this whole generation of internet communcation has such wonderful qualities and such negative qualities like people relating to all of the above.

I mean, this internet BS has become an offshoot to our lives and we can either treat it as what it is ... communication between strangers who have the opportunity to add goodness or add negative energy to each others lives - or, we can view it as, well another trajectory that matters naught because unless we actually meet each other, then what does any of it matter???

The internet has been a great lesson for detachment for me.

Saying that, I have met some bloody awesome people on the net who I honestly believe will remain with me for eternity, some of us may even meet up in the next. I have learnt a lot from each and every person I have met but I have vowed never ever to let somebody else thoughts, opinions, ideals or personalities affect my life in the here and now - well not to any extent that I get upset about it.

People are soft these days. Too soft. They should all Harden the f**k up me thinks. And also because of the population explosion there are many more unintelligent people everywhere too - this requires a whole lot more patience :D

Not that I am one iota more special than anyone else - nah man I am just me :D X

[Davidgeo]

It takes a lot of energy to approach the world as yourself with ease, confidently. The internet makes it so much harder sometimes. But the interwebs also give us more opportunities to find out things, and to reveal things about ourselves, than would ever be possible without it. How communication like this is used says far more about the user than the medium used to communicate. And of course... some people are just bat s**t crazy no matter what anyway. Though, I do think poetry communities do things differently on the whole. Pretty much everybody here is at least a little bit weird. What kind of lunatic narcissist posts their amateur poetry online hoping total strangers read and review it?

[KWP]

That last sentence made me laugh out loud - what the hell do you mean my poetry is amateur? No way man - read it all again - it may or may not make sense :S

It's funny - I do approach the world with ease and confidence - I walk through most of my fears because I know to learn and grow there is simply no other option. Saying that, I still get caught up on psychoanalysing every single damn action I take - I put myself through hell sometimes because of my knee jerk reactions to things / people - ha! I'm still a novice - but dam you my poetry rocks okay!!!

Hi Chris :D

[Russian Honey]

I don't write very often nowadays because of work and my life outside social platforms, however, I joined this site specifically for when my brain actually has time to gather up a new poem, this is where I should store my poetry. Seeing all these comments on how some users here can be so disrespectful towards one's work is just purely pathetic. Like it's our own work, if u don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all or even think about dragging hate for a long period of time. Like damn we just want to relax sometimes and write anything and everything. Thanks David for story, you the man!

[Davidgeo]

If you don't have anything nice to say that's exactly when you should say it. If what you have to say is apt, relax... and just say it. The only real problem with being "open" is when it's done out of malice. Because then it becomes just another script for confirmation bias. Something I can only describe because I am guilty of it myself.

Thanks for that review. I think it augments this poem in a good way that I'm not truly capable of.

[Davidgeo]

.. sorry I meant 'story' instead of 'poem'. I'm too used to writing nothing but poetry.

[Marie Anzalone]

I have been largely inactive on here since 2013 when this was done to me in a targeted campaign by a group of individuals. It was too emotionally exhausting to continue. I use the site to organize my thoughts and back up my writing. Maybe one day I will interact again, but I realized I am not quite ready yet. The damage was done, and the message was sent loud and clear: stand up for yourself, stand up for others, and we will destroy you and make you a social outcast.

Not that I would ever want to be part of any group that these people were welcome in.

[Davidgeo]

None of this really matters.

You should come back, get into it again. It's all exactly as exhausting as you want it to be. Idiot a*****e people are easy to ignore.

[Gee]

Tis blocks all of the sniping and back biting. I know you ain't everyone's cup of tea but I enjoy our occasional chats muchly :))

[Davidgeo]

Some people take it a little further than the block button was meant to remedy. Some folks like to dedicate weeks and weeks of their time to absolutely bat s**t craziness. At the time when I wrote this I was a little worried about how crazy and obsessed some people could get, but now, it's really hard not to just laugh at the comedy of the sickness and obsession and the bizarre lengths a person will go to satisfy that sick obsession. I know it's not a kind thing to laugh at someone else's anger management problems and unacknowledged sociopathic personality... but it's better than directly addressing it and feeding their disorders further. Sadly, or amusingly, some people want to always see conflict where none really exists and turn petty short lived disagreements into an all out one sided manufactured war, it's kind of insane. Reminds me of what started the second Iraqi invasion by America way back in 2003ish.... we know now that the whole "weapons of mass destruction" thing was a manufactured excuse just to start a war for less than noble ulterior motives.

But at the end of the day, the best response is no response. This isn't high school and we're not teenagers in a popularity contest no matter how convinced some people here seem to be of it.

[YouoweYoupay]

You speak the truth, we become obsessively busy talking negatively about someone else not because we have a problem with them, but because we have a serious problem with our own selves. I agree with you and I thought your piece was an eye-opener. Thanks for sharing.

Never stop writing!
~Aysha.

[Davidgeo]

I'm glad we see this issue the same way. Thanks for your encouragement.

[KWP]

can of worms ..... opened ..... kudos for that .... I like intelligent folk .....

[Davidgeo]

Me too....

[Cherrie Palmer]

David I wanted to weigh in about this mess.
:)

About 9 years ago we had a woman who opened several accounts each with a different persona. That she used to wheel some high drama.

No matter where we go people like that will be waiting to create havoc.
Shining a light on the problem is always the best policy.

As writers let's be transparent and as people sharing a similar passion let's be honest.

I don't know the specifics and don't need to know.

I'd like to think the moderator will stop any outrighted slander.

in the end we can only account for ourselves and our personal conduct. I've been to several writing sites and prefer the cafe.

It is always a risk sharing our work on a website.

But..

I think it's worth it to meet all of you.

[Davidgeo]

I think that is a very reasonable way to see things. I'm starting to find that the people who continue to go on and on and on about petty non-sense and make up absurd stories about other people because they're just to enraged to accept the truth always eventually expose themselves for what they are when we let them. That whole "the truth will set you free" thing really does mean something. That's why I'm not naming names or pointing to specifics with this writing, I'm just describing the form of their madness as I see it and opening myself up to all to see, flaws and all. I've made mistakes but I have some integrity and am not a bad person nor am I a fake person... which cannot be said for a few others here. My hope is that after getting this off my chest here and after this dies down out there we can move on better equipped to ignore shenanigans like that and get back to creative writing for it's own sake.

[augustus]

Become a nudist then you will see other nudists in a more forgiving light! You cannot hide behind something that isn't there when naked.

[Nyx Star]

They're being trolls and not the cute kind with the colorful hair. No one is better then anyone else even though some would like to think so. Instead of attacking an individual they should look themselves in the mirror and sort out their own insecurities and faults, not pile it up onto someone else. Their problems are not yours.

They need to grow up and get a life. If your being targeted the best thing to do is block that person and get off the internet for a few days.

[Davidgeo]

The actions of a few people here that drove me to write this are much worse than just trolling. And the sad thing is, they aren't just teenagers or young adults... these are "men" in and around their 60's who are so completely driven by rage they are willing to become sociopathic pathological liars and create entirely fake profiles and over long periods of time play both the bully and the victim all by themselves. It's some seriously fucked up s**t. But they aren't as good at it as they think they are, their intended affect is falling flat because I don't run away from anything that's not going to physically harm me nor will I play into their games and lower myself to reacting in kind. About the only response they will get from me now is this post and my responses to the reviews it gets. And over time when this post and all the responses fade from memory I'll just carry on as if they never existed. Because you're right; blocking, ignoring and just moving on to more productive ways to spend my time on this site is really the best thing for everyone. Continued participation in a circle of hatred ensures that it will never end and nothing will ever really be accomplished.

Thanks for your review and advice. I appreciate that you took time, I think it's important for people to see the nature of what's going on without using names or directly accusing people of things... because getting specific just continues that circle of hatred.

[This Guy (Again)]

This isn't a story. This is pure truth being spoken. It's quite unfortunate how some people's mentality fits this to a T! At the end of the day, maturity and respect is key. Well done David!

[Davidgeo]

Thanks for that, I appreciate it.

Some people troll for amusement out of boredom, other people troll for deeply emotionally twisted reasons. I don't really mind the former that much, but the latter need to get off the internet and seek out professional therapy.

[¿]

Hello David, I know you'll frown a bit by seeing my review at first since we indeed don't have any good memory between us or perhaps you might not....
I've read your story and gave it a thought....this one does showcase some true facts that I can't deny...You remember we exchanged rude chats for why I'd blocked you (was my frustration undoubtedly) I've seen people showing hatred against you, showing reasons of hating you and accusing that you're a Troll. I always believe that you're vicious (you know it) but not troll.... perhaps, tis just that you don't use the good side of your heart for everyone...I agree with the reviews of Divya, Ana, and Chris so don't wanna repeat that.
I've seen you've reviewed a friend of mine by calling him creep who never knew you ever....I yet couldn't find the reason of that review. That matter made me bit angry at you, twas not valid tho...
Thing is that you've been both sweet and rude to me and I find it difficult to understand you and your expressions well. Maybe cause am yet a buttercup....
You can surely be rough to me now for if anything I've said you don't believe to...
(And, the last para is entirely a truth, I remember one had said to me that)
Have a good day.

[Davidgeo]

The issue I had with you is that you side with people for superficial reasons without going deeper and coming to a more reasoned and accurate conclusion. You also listen to other people too much instead of coming to your own conclusions when it comes to a total strangers character. Hopefully you've matured beyond that, I assume you have because you are young and I know when I was your age I certainly wasn't very mature... probably far less mature than yourself if we were to compare each other at the same ages.

Anyway, I'm not here primarily to make friends so when I see someone using spurious logic to judge something or someone they don't really know anything about beyond a few public posts I tend to be "rough" on them, as you put it. Now, this is not to say I was right for how I've reacted to people like that in the past... being an a*****e while expressing my honest opinion still means I'm an a*****e and that cheapens any valid point I would have made. Another flaw in my past approach was that I haven't given people enough opportunity to show more of themselves and their character before I came to my own conclusions, which makes me, in a way, not much different from what I was holding against you... i.e. being too quick to judge people. The only main difference is that you listen to people's opinions about other's more readily and internalize conclusions based on group/clique identity instead of objective logic.

Like I mentioned before these are traits of someone who is young, in fact most of us probably were very similar at one point in time, but these are not necessarily traits of someone isn't a good person at heart. It doesn't mean we were or are bad people, it just means we were not all born socially mature adults... we have to grow in as healthy a way as we can to get there and that takes time... and sometimes mistakes.

The subjects of this article are fully grown adults (50 plus years old) who have not matured in a healthy way. They are people who think the ends are more important than the means so they feel justified in manufacturing elaborate stories without a shred of credibility simply to discredit someone they have a personal grudge against. And that's what makes them, not just bad members of this website, but bad people in general.

I hope that we can move past our old disagreements and have a more healthy relationship with each other on this site.

[¿]

Of course we can have a healthy and peaceful relationship with each other....Also I understand the matter about the stages of life which you said above....
One thing that I've noticed by a little analysis of a week is.....a person or a group is repeatedly trying to intensify the bitterness that's ongoing in this site....for instance, if you have some bad issues with a fellow writer here then a third member disguises himself/herself into your cloned or the fellow writer's cloned profile and sends hate mails and threats privately...am saying this since I've received such mails which makes me think that someone must finds entertainment in making animosity among writers....But I'll let bygones be bygones now....Hope you have a good day :)

[Davidgeo]

Good, I'm glad we can move past that. It's not worth it for either of us to stay angry at each other over such petty things. And I am aware that you know and have commented on a few of the persons "hate poems" that I am talking about with this post. I will not try and convince you to think anything other than what you find to be true based on your own thoughts and conclusions. All I hope for is that you use your own thoughts and come to a conclusion that makes sense to you based on your own reasoning, based on what makes sense to you... not what some person half a world a way wants you to believe. And that includes me and everything I've said here; let my words ring true or false on their own logical merit. If you still find me to be what has been said by your own conclusions I won't hold it against you because that's all I can ask truly of you... is to find your own conclusions.

[¿]

I will use my own mind to think and eyes to see....Until and after I reach my conclusions :)

[Davidgeo]

You probably don't mean to use the word "until" there. It implies you won't use your own mind to think until after you reach your conclusions... i.e. you are letting someone else think for you and feed you reasons not found on your own to form your conclusions... which means they aren't really your own conclusions at all. But that's just semantics, I think I know what you really mean and am glad to hear it no matter what it is you conclude.

[Wild Rose]

Well said
I have has bosses like that
Always putting you (Everyone not just me) down
Go for a job interview and he has put his spoke in first - "no one ever leaves my team" he would say

We (a small specialist 3 man team) applied for jobs and didn't ask for time to go for the interview - just took a sicky >
On return I gave him a college in a totally different part of the country

On the internet I just put a block on the offenders > that is after I have sent a very nasty post to them - they are unable to reply

[Davidgeo]

Thanks Rose. I think you have the right idea... just block 'em and spend your time on what makes you happy here. Sometimes the simplest plan is the most effective and productive plan.

[Wild Rose]

That is what the kids should be taught to do with online bullies

Had a guy wanting me to give him my bank details
I did to an account where you could only pay in
Then got him to give me an address where I could send the money > that was passed on to the Trading Standards guys to chace him up > I knew is was a scam at the start

[Davidgeo]

Ha... that's kinda funny. Scam artists of that nature are human versions of a viral infections.